2014 EMRA Rule Changes

M87

Active Member
By your rational, why do we have an open sport and a open superbike race? They should just be combined. The problem is, that there are people on 600's getting beat by those on 1000's that likley wouldn't if they were on equal bikes, but because there is only one 600 race, we are forced to enter those other classes unless we only want to race once.

What?
Message is too short so let me rephrase.
I am not against having more races that are 600 class. I am against making it restricted by a bunch of unenforceable rules. And then having people whine that maybe one bike is too fast or not within those rules.
I'm editing again.
I would like to see a SBK 600 class, almost anything goes, and a supersport class, rather than super stock.
My reasoning is that I and I think a lot of people would not be legal for super stock as defined by the AMA.
For example I have a brembo brake, can't use that in super stock. My original display is gone, I just have a race kit tach, not eligible.
So lets say I fix those things, and lose thirty-forty pounds. My bike's motor as it sits is super stock legal but I have done everything allowable. If you beat me on motor, I know you are cheating. Now what?
 
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Fireman

Well-Known Member
So Fast 25, Formula 105 are out? And that leaves less for the 650 guys, which there are a lot of, no?

And if this is what the schedule is, why not switch up the Open SS and 600SS, seems like a lot of 600 races all in a row there.

I say we just ban R6's, then every would be happier, right?

This is a general peek at a possible timetable. Nothing will be decided here. classes can be voted on by the membership at the AGM, and the timetable will be put forth by your 2014 exec (which will also need to be voted on at the AGM)

It has been said multiple times in this thread. But there are already working class structure templates available to us through other clubs. This will need to be closely looked at.
 

Lehbs

Member
What?
Message is too short so let me rephrase.
I am not against having more races that are 600 class. I am against making it restricted by a bunch of unenforceable rules. And then having people whine that maybe one bike is too fast or not within those rules.
I'm editing again.
I would like to see a SBK 600 class, almost anything goes, and a supersport class, rather than super stock.
My reasoning is that I and I think a lot of people would not be legal for super stock as defined by the AMA.
For example I have a brembo brake, can't use that in super stock. My original display is gone, I just have a race kit tach, not eligible.
So lets say I fix those things, and lose thirty-forty pounds. My bike's motor as it sits is super stock legal but I have done everything allowable. If you beat me on motor, I know you are cheating. Now what?
OK, I agree with the more 600 races, however with the race tach kit, and brembo master yes that would mean you no longer qualify for ama supersport which sucks given your power and suspension is no better than a stock eligible machine. However, given that I believe you would now be in the minority of 600 riders. I expect there would also be a certain number of riders in the 1000cc class that would be in the same boat.

My point about these classes though are that they then transfer across the racing community. Also if for some reason all the stars align, and hell freezes over, and either rockyview or badlands becomes a reality, a track of that size is going to have to diferentiate into classess such as these as a built r6 or cbr is going to dominate in power over a stock engine on a bigger track.
 
So Fast 25, Formula 105 are out? And that leaves less for the 650 guys, which there are a lot of, no?/QUOTE]

What about lightweight superbike also?

Having only one race for all the 650's (middleweight twins) to be competitive in will hurt. Let's face it running a 650 in battle of the twins with the big KTM's and ducks makes the squabbling the 600 guys are doing over suspension and minor cc discrepancies pretty miniscule.
 

M87

Active Member
Of the first 7 bikes I looked at in the for sale section, 4 are not super stock legal. Maybe that might be too small a sample but I don't think that it's too far out.
I have the parts to make mine legal and will do so if required but do we want to create a class where people are pulling parts off their bike?
Or would it be better to launch protests at the end of every race?
Oh and lets ban those 675s THEY are the real cheater bikes.
 
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Fireman

Well-Known Member
Here you go folks. Here is the current and past rulebooks from the CMRA, the Utah Sba, and the WMRC

The WMRC is the race track layout that would most closely mimic what castrol will be like.

CMRA -http://www.roadracing.org/upload/media_element/2/13/cmra_2011_rulebook.pdf

Utah SBA - schedule and rulebook http://www.utahsba.com/docs/2013/2013_Daily_Schedule_MoM v3_20minA-B.pdf

http://utahsba.com/docs/2012/2012_mom_rulebook_v011812.pdf

WMRC shedule and rulebook -
http://www.wmrc.ca/racers/typical-race-day-schedule

http://www.wmrc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/WMRC-Rule-Book-2013-finalv3.pdf

Now I understand that everyone will have to sit down for the next hour or so in order to read through these documents, however this is what will be required to make a working class structure that works at castrol raceway. Please note, we do not need to reinvent the wheel. Small changes need to be made to fit our layout and our tightened timetable.
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
justin i am curious as to what our timetable restrictions will be as compared to stratotech?

On the note of 600 guys squabling, i think it is more waht m87 has said in that why create a class (eliminating a current class, which falls in line with most organizations world wide i would believe 600SuperSport) that would cause many of the large grids which we had in said class require to remove parts from our bikes( parts which we spent hard earned money on to bring within the current rules)
my stance all along has been to align closer to the class structures that are used elsewhere for the same reasons that lehbs brought up.

it would be a shame to see formula 150 eliminated from the schedule, it had decent grids, and was a lot of fun (even if i used it with the aim of getting disqualified, lol) especially this year, unless we see a influx of female riders, their grid is going to be exceptionally small, and i think it would be bad for them to lose that class as well.

fast 25, i was hoping to possibly learn a few things from the fast guys this next season, but i could see how it may no longer fit, with time constraints as well as not bringing money into the club to put towards track rental etc. sorry justin, i know it was your freedom 55 plan lol
now onto reading the posted rule books so i can get a better understanding of how the other clubs operate.
 

Schramm

Member
If time constraints are a problem, I would have no issue if the 1000's and 600's ran a mixed grid, just separated for points and podiums purposes. But then you have speed difference issues I guess... I take it back.
 

Dean

Active Member
I'm just subscribing to watch this. As a member with a vested interest in both clubs, this is a very interesting thread.

Just to put out a few points. If you cannot make setup or teardown, plan on people really resenting that. They sacrifice time to do this too. If you are from out of town, plan on leaving earlier to match the sacrifice, or leaving later. At least help with one. Racing CLUBS, do not need consumers. They need members. Your money, while it matters, doesn't matter in a club sense. Your labour of love does.

Scheduling everyone's wants is the single biggest point of complaint in any club. You can't please everyone, but you can please most.

Racing is expensive. Don't complain about parts you have to add. No one ever said this was cheap. Matter of fact, this is for the elite. You can do it on a budget, but c'mon, seriously, this shit is expensive. Don't complain over something less than $500 additional.

If you think I have a jaded view, it's because I've been doing this for 10 years now, and my club has been in the position that EMRA is now facing with Castrol. It will now take a village to make it happen. You all are part of that village. now seriously, make this happen and happen well. What Dan gave you with Stratotech was NOT the norm in this sport. Pitch in. Be part of the team.
 

M87

Active Member
From another Alberta race association website.
The volunteer list from 2010 has been tallied up and below are all the names of people or families which helped during the 2010 season. The names may be spelled incorrectly or in some cases were a best guess as they were sometimes hard to read.
The list is in alphabetical order using first names for the most part. Please scroll to the bottom if you are checking for your name.
Thank you to all of those people and families that helped out this year, it is great to see so many names on the list and it was also great to have flaggers everywhere we needed them for each race. Thank you to those that donated equipment to help out as well, it all helps us to put on great events for the club.
Please check the list and contact myself via PM if you did volunteer but do not see your name. We may have missed you.
As per the membership requirements stated at the beginning of the year for the 2010 memberships and now the 2011 memberships, if you are not on the list and are not over 50 years old (these members have reached tha age that earns them the right to relax during their races, although we appreciate their volunteer help very much as well as many of them did volunteer this year :!: ) then you are not eligable for a 2011 XXXXX membership 8O

We require volunteers to help put on these events and if everyone helps a little bit, it is less work for us all. This is why we stressed needing volunteers and repeatedly mentioned that memberships for the following year would be under revue for volunteerism.

If you did not volunteer in 2010, you will be required to volunteer for either track prep or flagging at the first race before you are allowed to race (you may race that day but have to either do track prep the day before or flag that day for a 1/2 day. This may be yourself or your family members helping you to fullfill the requirement). This is for the 2010 season, you will still have to also volunteer for the 2011 season as well.

For all members to note: Flagging for one moto set once a year is not enough. If we have an average of 12 flag positions per race x practice and 6 blocks per day x 2 days x 8 races we need 1344 spots on the flagging board filled this coming summer. We also need help prepping the tracks which includes watering, tilling, gr*** cutting, fence repairs, start gate cleaning, weed eating, etc.
We have approx 300 to 350 memberships so math dictates we need more than one hour per family please...... and thank you!

This may upset some members but we have to be fair with those that did help out. They donated their time to help the club so why shouldn't we all? We would all love to just show up, pay our fees and race (me especially :!: ) but then there would be not prepped tracks and no flaggers to keep us safe. So we need help. Many hands make light work my wise father always told me :lol:
Please see list below and once again, thank you all that helped make the year a great one! Here is looking forward to a fantastic 2011 :!:



So we are not the only ones with this sort of problem.
Personally I would like to see a Set up/Tear down list around the same time as the race schedule is announced. At my work it can be quite difficult to get time off in the summer, as I am sure it is for most of you, so knowing when and where I fit would be a help.
That way I could pick my spots to volunteer and trade if necessary to get positions that I could fill.
 

Fireman

Well-Known Member
I'm just subscribing to watch this. As a member with a vested interest in both clubs, this is a very interesting thread.

Just to put out a few points. If you cannot make setup or teardown, plan on people really resenting that. They sacrifice time to do this too. If you are from out of town, plan on leaving earlier to match the sacrifice, or leaving later. At least help with one. Racing CLUBS, do not need consumers. They need members. Your money, while it matters, doesn't matter in a club sense. Your labour of love does.

Scheduling everyone's wants is the single biggest point of complaint in any club. You can't please everyone, but you can please most.

Racing is expensive. Don't complain about parts you have to add. No one ever said this was cheap. Matter of fact, this is for the elite. You can do it on a budget, but c'mon, seriously, this shit is expensive. Don't complain over something less than $500 additional.

If you think I have a jaded view, it's because I've been doing this for 10 years now, and my club has been in the position that EMRA is now facing with Castrol. It will now take a village to make it happen. You all are part of that village. now seriously, make this happen and happen well. What Dan gave you with Stratotech was NOT the norm in this sport. Pitch in. Be part of the team.


Well spoken dean. Thank you.

With this said your 2014 exec will also need to do additional work. None of this happens on its own, though it may seem this way sometimes. We have a speed bump of a year ahead of us however it is a very exciting time for the EMRA.

Let's meet this challenge head on. I have faith that this will help pull the core membership together and make some life long friend from it.
 

YZF1000jon

Well-Known Member
Mandatory volunteering may be the only way to make it work, but I don't believe singling out Novices is the best way to go. If everyone pitches in with at least one obligation (one job on one weekend), the coordinating side is much more difficult, but everyone else's job is much easier to take. The numbers may require 2 obligations depending on the work needed and the membership numbers, the problem is with enforcement, especially if someones obligations fall closer to the end of the season.

Superstock vs Superbike 600 sounds great, but tech inspection would be so difficult as to be prohibitive both time wise and mecahnically.
 
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fast316

EMRA Executive Member
So Fast 25, Formula 105 are out? And that leaves less for the 650 guys, which there are a lot of, no?

And if this is what the schedule is, why not switch up the Open SS and 600SS, seems like a lot of 600 races all in a row there.

I say we just ban R6's, then every would be happier, right?

I added up a few numbers. Figured out the average rider turn out for each class and each race (14 races on a sunday of racing). I also figured out the cost of each race per rider for the EMRA if we were to run last year at the track rental fee of castrol. The most expensive BY FAR races to run for the EMRA last year were the Formula thunder and the sportsman/Lightweight superbike races. All the other races put enough riders on the grids to be within +/- $6 per rider of each race. Not bad. The most cost effective by far class for the the EMRA to run was the Fast25.

Formula thunder was run at a cost of $59 per rider that entered, Sportsman/Lightweight superbike was run at a cost of $48 per rider that entered, Fast25 was run at a cost of $29 per rider that entered, all other races cost $32-38 per rider that entered for the club to run. These numbers point to combining the Twins classes and keeping the fast25. How we can run formula105 next year I'm not sure because we simply do not have a nice lap time (like 1.05 at stratotech) to go by.
 

Fireman

Well-Known Member
I added up a few numbers. Figured out the average rider turn out for each class and each race (14 races on a sunday of racing). I also figured out the cost of each race per rider for the EMRA if we were to run last year at the track rental fee of castrol. The most expensive BY FAR races to run for the EMRA last year were the Formula thunder and the sportsman/Lightweight superbike races. All the other races put enough riders on the grids to be within +/- $6 per rider of each race. Not bad. The most cost effective by far class for the the EMRA to run was the Fast25.

Formula thunder was run at a cost of $59 per rider that entered, Sportsman/Lightweight superbike was run at a cost of $48 per rider that entered, Fast25 was run at a cost of $29 per rider that entered, all other races cost $32-38 per rider that entered for the club to run. These numbers point to combining the Twins classes and keeping the fast25. How we can run formula105 next year I'm not sure because we simply do not have a nice lap time (like 1.05 at stratotech) to go by.

It will be no problem to have the appropriate lap time determined by the first round for the 1:05 race. Great work as always Jon.
 

Ducbert

Active Member
We may have to go back to a simple structure of light, middle and heavy (described below) and start from there. Similar to other clubs.......

The difference between stock and modified is not monitored nor enforced, so to have that kind of restriction in our rules, makes no sense unless we plan to tech everyone by it.

-Sportmans from 10yrs to 7yrs (It's 5 yrs at most US clubs)
-Brake Guard
-Shark Fin
-Chest protector

If keeping existing class structure then -All twins under 900 cc to run with 600's

OR

-Create 3 classes, light(I3/I4/V4 700 or less, twin 900 or less),
middle(I3/I4/V4 600-950, twin 1200 or less) and heavy (I3/I4/V4 700 +, twin 900 +)

This gives you 6 base races for all riders, add 2 Novice races, 2 Superbike races, We're only at 10.......then add couple specialty races and we're golden.
 
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M87

Active Member
Chest protector?
When did we bring that up? I'm trying not to flame anyone here but we don't need chest protectors.
Please don't get me started on why.
Please.
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
I would be curious as to what the reasoning why chest protectors are not a good reason? I am positive we easily have the potential to deliver a strong enough blow to the chest to do all sorts of damage to heart lungs sternum etc. why not be pro active in safeguarding our selves? Are they mandatory elsewhere?

And my point in regards to fast 25, please correct me if I am wrong, is that all entry fees are divided and paid out to the top 3 riders. None going to help pay for track rental. Therefore being the most expensive class run for the club. As I said I may be wrong
 

M87

Active Member
Chest protectors are only mandatory in some drag race classes. They must be Kevlar to protect you from shrapnel. You must wear a chest protector in motocross but technically they are roost guards and you wouldn't get black flagged if it came off. Try that with a helmet.
Why would we impose something that no other road racing association does?
The best judge of what level of protection I need is me. I may decide to wear one in the future but I want it to be my choice.
 
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