2014 EMRA Rule Changes

M87

Active Member
Yeah quickshifters aren't in the rule book but if you look under club information on the classes page they are mentioned.
I guess it never got updated.
 

nac.00

EMRA Executive Member
Staff member
I'm not one bit concerned with speed difference between 600 and 1000 machines as far as safety. And I don't think we should be.
Everyone keeps talking about this track as being super fast and dangerous mixing bikes....
I've walked the track and it looks slower than 85% of the tracks that I've (and many of my teammates) have been to.
Ever race Calgary? Yeah it can be frustrating passing a 1000 in there corners only to get passed on the straight but that's the class you entered into.... Its only going to make you faster.
I think everyone needs to realize Stratotech (yeah it was fun) was a go cart track.
 

oldskool

Active Member
I like the idea of forced/mandatory help for setup/cleanup ect.

I don't mind the brake gaurd or shark fin....makes sense.


Reduce the age for sportsman, good idea......you'll need all the help you can get to keep up with a 98 R1.


Mandatory chest protection is retarded.


600's had the advantage 80% of the lap at stratotech and will likely still have the advantage at this track, think about it for a second.
 

Dean

Active Member
I don't see the big fuss over helping out with set up and tear down. As well for the novice promotion. Either you volunteer your time. Miss a weekend or two of racing. Which sucks yes. But you don't pay to race that weekend. Or get a family or friend to fill your spot. Pay them if you have to. And still get to race the weekends.

Dean. How much has having people help set up or tear down air fence for a weekend hurt membership? Does the wmrc do the volunteer hours to promote? Has it deterred anybody from wanting to race in your opinion with your club?

Shane, that's a very loaded question, and *is* a sore point with our club. I'll try to answer it as best as I can, but my answer can sound harsh to some. I won't try to be politically correct with this answer, and will tell it straight.

Does having people help with setup or tear down for a weekend hurt membership? No, it does not. When it is mandatory, yes it does hurt. There are people in our club, who I will call consumers. They pay their fees and to them, we provide the service. The WMRC's service is to provide a day to race, officials to officiate the races, and staff and bandwidth to publish those results. They expect trophies, and all other accolades that come with racing. These folks are first to point out that results are late or incorrect. They took time off work to come and patronize our club, so our customer service must be impeccable to them. This is about 1/8 to 1/4 of our membership. Not many, but enough "squeaky wheels" to cause grief.

The next 1/2 of the club are those that do what they can to help, as long as it's not too great a sacrifice. They'll help with 2 to 3 setups or tear downs per year and will be happy in the fact that they are lending a hand here and there. They don't complain about things, and are just happy to be there and race. They pay their fees and enjoy their time at the track. If you ask them to do something, they usually do it. However, when we need volunteers on a rainy day, or a weekend to repair airfence, bag bales, etc, they will have an excuse. "Wife's birthday, child's birthday, family gathering, promised the SO I'd work on the honeydew jar", etc. They do a small part, and if the other 1/8 to 1/4 did this, we'd be in a VERY happy place. In my opinion, if a club had 80% of their people like this, it would work and work well.

The final 20% of the people (1/8th to 1/4) are your exec and a core group of volunteers. We call them core, because rain, shine, weekends, evenings, etc, they give this all up to help the club. These are the labour of love people. They put in their regular work hours, and then put in the same amount for the club they love. They usually do not have much of a separate life outside of the club. Spare time is spent thinking of ways to improve, etc. They show up for every setup, teardown, etc. These are the people who burn so bright for the club. These are the people who burn out for the club, because of the consumers.

Ok, this is getting long. Here are *real* numbers from this year.

The WMRC has over 125 active licensed racers.
The WMRC has roughly 45 active licensed racers show up to every round.
The WMRC has 15 core volunteers including exec who always work.
of the 45 always active racers, not including the core volunteers who race, about 20 will help with 1 or 2 setups or tear downs.
10 of those racers will help with 1 and be done for the year (consumers).
10 more will always have an excuse as to why they cannot.
The core volunteers will start to resent those who don't help.
The 20 who do help will not think any resentment is towards them, because they helped once, which was the best they could do.
10 to 15 will not care, and they can go race anywhere. The club should be happy for their money.

The core do it for love. I can't remember the amount of times, I heard "I work late, so can't make it down." I usually work until 5pm, then commute home in traffic for 1.5 hours (I live in Vancouver..we have BAD trafffic). Then I pack up and drive 1 hour to the track. I arrive in the dark. I don't unpack, I head out to help with setup, which has been going on for an hour or two already. We finish as much as we can before dark, then I unpack, and head out for an unhealthy dinner of fast food at 10 or 10:30pm. If 10 more people helped, we could all eat dinner at 8pm instead.

Sounds like a mess don't it? The key word here is CLUB. The WMRC, EMRA and CMRA are not stores. We don't sell racing. We organize racing. The membership makes it happen.

New Novices wonder why we single them out. We do and we don't. We try to "fix" the new people and instill a volunteer requirement and effort to keep the club mentality going. If new people come in and are consumers, that doesn't help the club. We try to set the ground rules that we all have to pitch in.

All of you are here discussing this. That's because you *are* the core group. you care. You have to share that enthusiasm to the other members and encourage them to help too. Don't just be a voice, be an example.
 

sand.man

Well-Known Member
Everyone should pay close attention to what Dean has to say about managing a club that's faced with real circumstances that are nothing like what we have all been accustomed to. Head on over to their forums for a glimpse at what a bunch of negative premadonna whiners can do to a club.

Well said Dean, there's no need to sugar coat a post in this thread, we need to see the hard truths.

The executives may be the head of the club, but they're carried on the shoulders of the members. Let's do what we can to make their jobs easier and we all will reap the rewards and maybe even go ride bikes!
 

the_fornicator

Active Member
600's ... will likely still have the advantage at this track, think about it for a second.

I've thought about it and am still wondering why. Empirically, I see a great number of straights and longer straights. That being said, 1000s need to brake earlier, but will that compensate enough for the power difference?

Also, want me to drop your paint stuff off one of these days? Thanks for "giving" it to me for the past year lol I feel guilty for having borrowed them for this long.
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
Holy crap, that was a long post. Sorry.

not at all, a great post that cuts rite to the point.
its sad to think that some people would be upset with helping more than a couple times a season, or a complete f that attitude.
and as you mentioned, the more people that helped the faster it gets done and everybody can enjoy a cold one at the end of the day.
 

M87

Active Member
Excellent post Dean.
Maybe we should copy it and post it again in the spring.
That wasn't sarcasm I just meant that some time enthusiasm wanes.
 

AleksV

Member
Shane, that's a very loaded question, and *is* a sore point with our club. I'll try to answer it as best as I can, but my answer can sound harsh to some. I won't try to be politically correct with this answer, and will tell it straight.

Does having people help with setup or tear down for a weekend hurt membership? No, it does not. When it is mandatory, yes it does hurt. There are people in our club, who I will call consumers. They pay their fees and to them, we provide the service. The WMRC's service is to provide a day to race, officials to officiate the races, and staff and bandwidth to publish those results. They expect trophies, and all other accolades that come with racing. These folks are first to point out that results are late or incorrect. They took time off work to come and patronize our club, so our customer service must be impeccable to them. This is about 1/8 to 1/4 of our membership. Not many, but enough "squeaky wheels" to cause grief.

The next 1/2 of the club are those that do what they can to help, as long as it's not too great a sacrifice. They'll help with 2 to 3 setups or tear downs per year and will be happy in the fact that they are lending a hand here and there. They don't complain about things, and are just happy to be there and race. They pay their fees and enjoy their time at the track. If you ask them to do something, they usually do it. However, when we need volunteers on a rainy day, or a weekend to repair airfence, bag bales, etc, they will have an excuse. "Wife's birthday, child's birthday, family gathering, promised the SO I'd work on the honeydew jar", etc. They do a small part, and if the other 1/8 to 1/4 did this, we'd be in a VERY happy place. In my opinion, if a club had 80% of their people like this, it would work and work well.

The final 20% of the people (1/8th to 1/4) are your exec and a core group of volunteers. We call them core, because rain, shine, weekends, evenings, etc, they give this all up to help the club. These are the labour of love people. They put in their regular work hours, and then put in the same amount for the club they love. They usually do not have much of a separate life outside of the club. Spare time is spent thinking of ways to improve, etc. They show up for every setup, teardown, etc. These are the people who burn so bright for the club. These are the people who burn out for the club, because of the consumers.

Ok, this is getting long. Here are *real* numbers from this year.

The WMRC has over 125 active licensed racers.
The WMRC has roughly 45 active licensed racers show up to every round.
The WMRC has 15 core volunteers including exec who always work.
of the 45 always active racers, not including the core volunteers who race, about 20 will help with 1 or 2 setups or tear downs.
10 of those racers will help with 1 and be done for the year (consumers).
10 more will always have an excuse as to why they cannot.
The core volunteers will start to resent those who don't help.
The 20 who do help will not think any resentment is towards them, because they helped once, which was the best they could do.
10 to 15 will not care, and they can go race anywhere. The club should be happy for their money.

The core do it for love. I can't remember the amount of times, I heard "I work late, so can't make it down." I usually work until 5pm, then commute home in traffic for 1.5 hours (I live in Vancouver..we have BAD trafffic). Then I pack up and drive 1 hour to the track. I arrive in the dark. I don't unpack, I head out to help with setup, which has been going on for an hour or two already. We finish as much as we can before dark, then I unpack, and head out for an unhealthy dinner of fast food at 10 or 10:30pm. If 10 more people helped, we could all eat dinner at 8pm instead.

Sounds like a mess don't it? The key word here is CLUB. The WMRC, EMRA and CMRA are not stores. We don't sell racing. We organize racing. The membership makes it happen.

New Novices wonder why we single them out. We do and we don't. We try to "fix" the new people and instill a volunteer requirement and effort to keep the club mentality going. If new people come in and are consumers, that doesn't help the club. We try to set the ground rules that we all have to pitch in.

All of you are here discussing this. That's because you *are* the core group. you care. You have to share that enthusiasm to the other members and encourage them to help too. Don't just be a voice, be an example.

Great post
 

oldskool

Active Member
I've thought about it and am still wondering why. Empirically, I see a great number of straights and longer straights. That being said, 1000s need to brake earlier, but will that compensate enough for the power difference?

I can understand where you're coming from. It is simply hypothetical at this point as no one has run this full course but I don't believe it will be that fast (I agree with Neil)..........will it be faster? yes, but by what margin? In calgary the fast guys on 6's were right there with the 1000's.

600's will be able to brake later, turn in later and deeper (with less chance of pushing the front), carry more speed through the corner, get on the gas earlier, and remain at lean under acceleration longer and easier with out the bike wanting to stand itself up and head for the dirt.........all because the crank/rods/cams/clutch/gears weigh nothing compared to a 1000 (and they're spinning between 7,000 and 14,000 rpm).
A 600 will be able to carry ~ 10+kph thourgh the chicane compared to a 1000, and at midpoint in the race the 600 rider will have used a lot less energy than the litre bike rider, leaving more room to 'push'.

If we were discussing the isle of mann or a fast european track, then sure, no comparison, 1000's would destroy 600's, but this is not the case here. You can't deny the fact that the fastest guys at stratotech set their records on 600's.

One question for you:
If you shoe horned a 1300cc busa engine into a gsxr 1000 chassi, do you think you could turn a faster lap (at 99% of the tracks out there)? Personally I think you would go slower.



Also, want me to drop your paint stuff off one of these days? Thanks for "giving" it to me for the past year lol I feel guilty for having borrowed them for this long.

LOL, I can come grab that stuff if you're finished. I have not had any need for it so don't feel bad man, glad I could help.
 

Ducbert

Active Member
I think Dean hit the nail on the head. It's not a pretty fact but it's a fact......

There will be consumers going forward, probably more than now, it's human nature and we're about to face that.

I hope to see everyone who posted here at the AGM where you can cast your vote.........

Historically we've seen less consumers at the EMRA but we've had a few critics......
 

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Jason Henton

Active Member
The core volunteers will start to resent those who don't help.

I dont understand this. I volunteered at my local fire department for 6 or 7 years, there was never ANY resentment towards the members who could not help as much as others. We simply appreciated help when we got it, people have other obligations, why would this cause resentment?
 

JDstealth

Active Member
I can understand where you're coming from. It is simply hypothetical at this point as no one has run this full course but I don't believe it will be that fast (I agree with Neil)..........will it be faster? yes, but by what margin? In calgary the fast guys on 6's were right there with the 1000's.

600's will be able to brake later, turn in later and deeper (with less chance of pushing the front), carry more speed through the corner, get on the gas earlier, and remain at lean under acceleration longer and easier with out the bike wanting to stand itself up and head for the dirt.........all because the crank/rods/cams/clutch/gears weigh nothing compared to a 1000 (and they're spinning between 7,000 and 14,000 rpm).
A 600 will be able to carry ~ 10+kph thourgh the chicane compared to a 1000, and at midpoint in the race the 600 rider will have used a lot less energy than the litre bike rider, leaving more room to 'push'.

If we were discussing the isle of mann or a fast european track, then sure, no comparison, 1000's would destroy 600's, but this is not the case here. You can't deny the fact that the fastest guys at stratotech set their records on 600's.

One question for you:
If you shoe horned a 1300cc busa engine into a gsxr 1000 chassi, do you think you could turn a faster lap (at 99% of the tracks out there)? Personally I think you would go slower.





LOL, I can come grab that stuff if you're finished. I have not had any need for it so don't feel bad man, glad I could help.

I agree with this to an extent, the fastest riders were on 600s but what was their skill set? How much did they have into their bikes? The majority of the mortals running close to track record pace were on 1000s even at a "kart" track...

Next year will be very interesting needless to say.
 

macbayne

Active Member
I agree with this to an extent, the fastest riders were on 600s but what was their skill set? How much did they have into their bikes? The majority of the mortals running close to track record pace were on 1000s even at a "kart" track...

Next year will be very interesting needless to say.

yeah, not only that, but how much did the record holder have in his 600? 135 hp in a 600 is a lot of work.

fwiw, there are at least 2 guys out there on pump gas 600s and stock suspension runing 59s.

if hp gives 0.5 second a lap advantage at a track, that is 5 seconds by the end of a 10 lap race.
 

oldskool

Active Member
Going way off as far as rules are concerned but what the hell. The point is the 600's make up for the lack of hp by completely destroying the litre bikes in the other areas I suggested.

The best example that can be given is the 250 that lapped strato in ~ 59 sec. It may have been piloted by an uber skilled ninja but it proves how much of an advantage a lightweight engine/machine is everywhere but the straightaway. That machine had roughly 60 hp I believe. It required extra ordinary skill but that same pilot didn't lap much faster (or any faster?) with an additional 100hp.


So please stop with your concerns about power (especially at this track) it's only one part of a much larger equation for fast lap times (give someone too much and they'll actually slow down!!)
 

sand.man

Well-Known Member
I think those TZ's make closer to 80-85hp but I agree, I don't see the advantage being that significant where HP is concerned at Castrol.
 
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