2023 Rule change discussion

Logan

Member
Here's my 4am nightshift rant.

Points to motion for Lightweight/Middleweight:
First: If middleweight bikes are going to separate from lightweight, then in fairness they should be split grid and two different starts. If they are in fact two different races/classes, then gridding everyone together is pointless and moot.

Secondly: If Middleweight bikes are placed into its own class, then this class should also qualify for a "Superbike" title. I know it's a hard phrase for some to swallow but it seems a little unfair for Lightweights, 600's and then 750-1000cc bikes all have that classification and not include this series of bikes. Also note that most all manufactures are leaning towards these bikes and as Bob Dylan said, "Times they are a changing".

Points to motion for Sportsman:
I also agree with setting a cap on the year for sportsman. Bikes from the early 2000's are completely different in performance then bikes that started coming out in 2008. This being said I motion for an age cap of 2007. There are many bikes can compete and it would also allow for budget friendly racers to have a class to compete in and would allow for some resurrection of vintage bikes to come out and be competitive again.

Points to Motion for Middleweight twins:
I would also like to see the Ducati 749 removed from the Middleweight class. This is a bike coming out with 110HP factory (which is on par with some 600's) now completing against bikes from factory between 65-75HP. Following MOTO AMERICA's Twin's cup eligible bikes I feel we should follow suit as it has been a proven and one of the fastest growing race classes.
  • Ducati Monster 797 / 797+
  • Harley Davidson Street 750 (Not sure why anyone would race this but F@%K it)
  • Kawasaki Ninja 650/R
  • KTM Duke 790
  • Suzuki SV650
  • Yamaha FZ07
I do realize that there are other bikes that fit into this classification such as a Krammer Evo2R featuring a KTM LC690cc Single Cylinder engine. But the Fact of the matter is that they have reasonably comparable specifications. It would be like allowing the GSXR 750 to race in 600 classes.

*** Alternatively, because I'm not a complete dink and singling out Ryan. We could remove the 749 from middleweight twins and make it eligible for Middleweight "Superbike". ***
 
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fast316

EMRA Executive Member
Secondly: If Middleweight bikes are placed into its own class, then this class should also qualify for a "Superbike" title. I know it's a hard phrase for some to swallow but it seems a little unfair for Lightweights, 600's and then 750-1000cc bikes all have that classification and not include this series of bikes.
The "superbike" title is determined by the equipment standards and specifications, Chapter 5 of the rule book. You have basically either Sportbike and Superbike tech. It's not really just a phrase or tag line we throw on classes.
Points to motion for Sportsman:
I also agree with setting a cap on the year for sportsman. Bikes from the early 2000's are completely different in performance then bikes that started coming out in 2008. This being said I motion for an age cap of 2007. There are many bikes can compete and it would also allow for budget friendly racers to have a class to compete in and would allow for some resurrection of vintage bikes to come out and be competitive again.
I guess my only hesitation to 2007 would be if we made it 2007 A LOT of the bikes currently on the grid would not be eligible. I think for the success of the club in general we want to make rules that don't limit grid sizes. I would pick a year that doesn't knock so many bikes currently on the grid, off the grid but still accomplishes the main idea behind the change. IMO 2010 would be a better year for this. In that model year you have no S1000rr, no R1 with TC, no ZX10r with TC, No CBR1000rr with TC, No GSXR1000 with TC. Most of the CBR600rr, R6, 675, ZX6R, 848, GSXR750 on EMRA grids would still be eligible.
 

Logan

Member
The "superbike" title is determined by the equipment standards and specifications, Chapter 5 of the rule book. You have basically either Sportbike and Superbike tech. It's not really just a phrase or tag line we throw on classes.

I guess my only hesitation to 2007 would be if we made it 2007 A LOT of the bikes currently on the grid would not be eligible. I think for the success of the club in general we want to make rules that don't limit grid sizes. I would pick a year that doesn't knock so many bikes currently on the grid, off the grid but still accomplishes the main idea behind the change. IMO 2010 would be a better year for this. In that model year you have no S1000rr, no R1 with TC, no ZX10r with TC, No CBR1000rr with TC, No GSXR1000 with TC. Most of the CBR600rr, R6, 675, ZX6R, 848, GSXR750 on EMRA grids would still be eligible.
Equipment standards could be changed for the "Super Twins" or "Middleweight Superbike" to follow suit with all the other classes then. IMHO.

You make a valid point on the age cap keeping bikes on grid at a 2010 cap so ill agree with you there.
 

muffenman1244

New Member
If the motion is to cap the bike at 2010, we should open the rules up to all carburetor motorcycles. This could help bring in some of the super moto guys with newer bikes but still keep it as a "vintage class" since your not getting much more out of a new carburetor vs an old carburetor.
The "superbike" title is determined by the equipment standards and specifications, Chapter 5 of the rule book. You have basically either Sportbike and Superbike tech. It's not really just a phrase or tag line we throw on classes.

I guess my only hesitation to 2007 would be if we made it 2007 A LOT of the bikes currently on the grid would not be eligible. I think for the success of the club in general we want to make rules that don't limit grid sizes. I would pick a year that doesn't knock so many bikes currently on the grid, off the grid but still accomplishes the main idea behind the change. IMO 2010 would be a better year for this. In that model year you have no S1000rr, no R1 with TC, no ZX10r with TC, No CBR1000rr with TC, No GSXR1000 with TC. Most of the CBR600rr, R6, 675, ZX6R, 848, GSXR750 on EMRA grids would still be eligible.
 

Nevets

EMRA Executive Member
Rule 5.5. Formula 112. I would like to see this changed to Formula 115. Lap times have gotten faster over the past few years, this has had a knock on effect with our Formula 112 class. A class that is not about outright lap time and more about consistency. Moving the cutoff time to 115% would move the time back to what it was when this class was first created. Looking at lap time of those in this race and others, you still unfortunately see riders on the same bikes in different races going 2 second a lap faster. I think changing the cut off time from 112% to 115% brings this class back to where it was when it started, and makes it harder for riders that shouldn't be in this class to sandbag and stay in it.


I like this proposal, but after discussing it with a few guys on the exec, we've come up with an alternative proposal that we think will be better for the club overall.

Short version
1. There's a huge gap between F112 and Dash for Cash, and guys who disqualify from F112 just do one less race.
2. We don't want anyone slower than a F112 cutoff in Dash, so changing it to a F115 will just make the problem worse.
3. The best thing for the club is to add F108 behind Dash, and keep F112 as is.

Long version (including justification)
I think we can all agree there's a big gap between Formula 112 and Dash for Cash. Many guys who disqualify out of F112 just drop a race, rather than race in Dash (confirmed this by speaking with multiple riders who had this experience). For example, most guys in Dash are running 1:22.XXX lap times at Rad Torque, while the cutoff for Formula 112 is 1:27.739. That's a big gap to jump from a 1:27 down to a 1:22, and if you decide to enter the race anyway, you end up racing by yourself and not getting any faster.

The solution I'm proposing is to add a Formula 108 race that grids behind Dash for Cash and starts at the same time (NO WAVED START). The entries into F108 pay into the prize payout for Dash the same way anyone entering Dash for Cash does (Note: there is no extra fee, the EMRA takes it out of the 30$ you pay when you register for Dash for Cash). If you DQ out of F108, you automatically score points in that Dash for Cash race. Only people who have DQ'd out of F112 would be able to register for F108.

The advantages to this are:
1. Racers breaking out of F112 have somewhere to go, and don't reduce the number of races they enter.
2. Dash is the race right before F112. So if you DQ out of F112, it is a minor adjustment to your race schedule to grid in F108 instead (the race before is Middle Twins / Lightweight Open, so those bikes will never be in Dash).
3. To DQ out of F108, you need to run a 1:24.605, and you're probably already catching the slowest Dash racers anyway.
4. Dash only has about 10 bikes on track, this would help get more bikes on track. Hopefully with a bigger prize pools (additional racers in F108 paying into the pool) and a stepping stone race to help racers get faster this will encourage and help people to race in Dash for Cash, which is meant to be one of our premier competitive races.

The major disadvantage is where to set the cutoff time for the Formula 112 race.
Wherever you set the cutoff (be it F115 or any other number) that is the slowest pace we would see in F108. For Stratotech, anything slower than the F112 cut-off time will have the leaders of Dash lapping the slowest riders in F108 before the end of the race (see the attached image below with the various cut-off times, and number of laps to get lapped.
Keeping F112 as it is minimizes the chances of any riders in F108 getting lapped by the leaders in Dash for Cash.

We discussed gridding F108 behind Expert Sportbike, which is another small grid. The problem is where it falls in the schedule. It's after lunch, and more importantly it's right after Intermediate Sportbike, and these are the guys who need this new race more than most, and we'd be asking them to do back to back races.

From a pure numbers point of view, and having the best progression to get more racers into Dash, keeping F112 as is, and then adding F108 behind Dash makes the most sense. This is contrary to Jon's proposal for F115, which I happen to agree with. But in terms of what is best for the overall club, I think keeping F112 as it is makes the most sense.



1668294748643.png




Required rule book changes
Section 5.5
New race class: Formula 108
- Open to all intermediate and expert racers who have been disqualified from Formula 112
- No external timing devices (lap timers, pit boards, etc.)
- Any rider recording a lap time shorter than 108% of the cut-off time, as recorded by the EMRA timing system, will be disqualified, including the Formula 108 race and any other race prior.
- Any rider disqualified will not be able to re-enter the class for the rest of the season.
- The cut-off time at Rad Torque Raceway is 1:24.605 based on the current lap record of 1:18.3
- The cut-off time at Stratotech Park is 1:02.774 based on the current lap record of 0:58.124
- The cut-off time is set at the start of the year and will not change until the race season is over, at which time it will be reviewed for the following year.
- Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
 

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fast316

EMRA Executive Member
I like this proposal, but after discussing it with a few guys on the exec, we've come up with an alternative proposal that we think will be better for the club overall.

Short version
1. There's a huge gap between F112 and Dash for Cash, and guys who disqualify from F112 just do one less race.
2. We don't want anyone slower than a F112 cutoff in Dash, so changing it to a F115 will just make the problem worse.
3. The best thing for the club is to add F108 behind Dash, and keep F112 as is.

Long version (including justification)
I think we can all agree there's a big gap between Formula 112 and Dash for Cash. Many guys who disqualify out of F112 just drop a race, rather than race in Dash (confirmed this by speaking with multiple riders who had this experience). For example, most guys in Dash are running 1:22.XXX lap times at Rad Torque, while the cutoff for Formula 112 is 1:27.739. That's a big gap to jump from a 1:27 down to a 1:22, and if you decide to enter the race anyway, you end up racing by yourself and not getting any faster.

The solution I'm proposing is to add a Formula 108 race that grids behind Dash for Cash and starts at the same time (NO WAVED START). The entries into F108 pay into the prize payout for Dash the same way anyone entering Dash for Cash does (Note: there is no extra fee, the EMRA takes it out of the 30$ you pay when you register for Dash for Cash). If you DQ out of F108, you automatically score points in that Dash for Cash race. Only people who have DQ'd out of F112 would be able to register for F108.

The advantages to this are:
1. Racers breaking out of F112 have somewhere to go, and don't reduce the number of races they enter.
2. Dash is the race right before F112. So if you DQ out of F112, it is a minor adjustment to your race schedule to grid in F108 instead (the race before is Middle Twins / Lightweight Open, so those bikes will never be in Dash).
3. To DQ out of F108, you need to run a 1:24.605, and you're probably already catching the slowest Dash racers anyway.
4. Dash only has about 10 bikes on track, this would help get more bikes on track. Hopefully with a bigger prize pools (additional racers in F108 paying into the pool) and a stepping stone race to help racers get faster this will encourage and help people to race in Dash for Cash, which is meant to be one of our premier competitive races.

The major disadvantage is where to set the cutoff time for the Formula 112 race.
Wherever you set the cutoff (be it F115 or any other number) that is the slowest pace we would see in F108. For Stratotech, anything slower than the F112 cut-off time will have the leaders of Dash lapping the slowest riders in F108 before the end of the race (see the attached image below with the various cut-off times, and number of laps to get lapped.
Keeping F112 as it is minimizes the chances of any riders in F108 getting lapped by the leaders in Dash for Cash.

We discussed gridding F108 behind Expert Sportbike, which is another small grid. The problem is where it falls in the schedule. It's after lunch, and more importantly it's right after Intermediate Sportbike, and these are the guys who need this new race more than most, and we'd be asking them to do back to back races.

From a pure numbers point of view, and having the best progression to get more racers into Dash, keeping F112 as is, and then adding F108 behind Dash makes the most sense. This is contrary to Jon's proposal for F115, which I happen to agree with. But in terms of what is best for the overall club, I think keeping F112 as it is makes the most sense.



View attachment 2911




Required rule book changes
Section 5.5
New race class: Formula 108
- Open to all intermediate and expert racers who have been disqualified from Formula 112
- No external timing devices (lap timers, pit boards, etc.)
- Any rider recording a lap time shorter than 108% of the cut-off time, as recorded by the EMRA timing system, will be disqualified, including the Formula 108 race and any other race prior.
- Any rider disqualified will not be able to re-enter the class for the rest of the season.
- The cut-off time at Rad Torque Raceway is 1:24.605 based on the current lap record of 1:18.3
- The cut-off time at Stratotech Park is 1:02.774 based on the current lap record of 0:58.124
- The cut-off time is set at the start of the year and will not change until the race season is over, at which time it will be reviewed for the following year.
- Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
Nice! I really like this proposal.
 

OwenB

New Member
I like this proposal, but after discussing it with a few guys on the exec, we've come up with an alternative proposal that we think will be better for the club overall.

Short version
1. There's a huge gap between F112 and Dash for Cash, and guys who disqualify from F112 just do one less race.
2. We don't want anyone slower than a F112 cutoff in Dash, so changing it to a F115 will just make the problem worse.
3. The best thing for the club is to add F108 behind Dash, and keep F112 as is.

Long version (including justification)
I think we can all agree there's a big gap between Formula 112 and Dash for Cash. Many guys who disqualify out of F112 just drop a race, rather than race in Dash (confirmed this by speaking with multiple riders who had this experience). For example, most guys in Dash are running 1:22.XXX lap times at Rad Torque, while the cutoff for Formula 112 is 1:27.739. That's a big gap to jump from a 1:27 down to a 1:22, and if you decide to enter the race anyway, you end up racing by yourself and not getting any faster.

The solution I'm proposing is to add a Formula 108 race that grids behind Dash for Cash and starts at the same time (NO WAVED START). The entries into F108 pay into the prize payout for Dash the same way anyone entering Dash for Cash does (Note: there is no extra fee, the EMRA takes it out of the 30$ you pay when you register for Dash for Cash). If you DQ out of F108, you automatically score points in that Dash for Cash race. Only people who have DQ'd out of F112 would be able to register for F108.

The advantages to this are:
1. Racers breaking out of F112 have somewhere to go, and don't reduce the number of races they enter.
2. Dash is the race right before F112. So if you DQ out of F112, it is a minor adjustment to your race schedule to grid in F108 instead (the race before is Middle Twins / Lightweight Open, so those bikes will never be in Dash).
3. To DQ out of F108, you need to run a 1:24.605, and you're probably already catching the slowest Dash racers anyway.
4. Dash only has about 10 bikes on track, this would help get more bikes on track. Hopefully with a bigger prize pools (additional racers in F108 paying into the pool) and a stepping stone race to help racers get faster this will encourage and help people to race in Dash for Cash, which is meant to be one of our premier competitive races.

The major disadvantage is where to set the cutoff time for the Formula 112 race.
Wherever you set the cutoff (be it F115 or any other number) that is the slowest pace we would see in F108. For Stratotech, anything slower than the F112 cut-off time will have the leaders of Dash lapping the slowest riders in F108 before the end of the race (see the attached image below with the various cut-off times, and number of laps to get lapped.
Keeping F112 as it is minimizes the chances of any riders in F108 getting lapped by the leaders in Dash for Cash.

We discussed gridding F108 behind Expert Sportbike, which is another small grid. The problem is where it falls in the schedule. It's after lunch, and more importantly it's right after Intermediate Sportbike, and these are the guys who need this new race more than most, and we'd be asking them to do back to back races.

From a pure numbers point of view, and having the best progression to get more racers into Dash, keeping F112 as is, and then adding F108 behind Dash makes the most sense. This is contrary to Jon's proposal for F115, which I happen to agree with. But in terms of what is best for the overall club, I think keeping F112 as it is makes the most sense.



View attachment 2911




Required rule book changes
Section 5.5
New race class: Formula 108
- Open to all intermediate and expert racers who have been disqualified from Formula 112
- No external timing devices (lap timers, pit boards, etc.)
- Any rider recording a lap time shorter than 108% of the cut-off time, as recorded by the EMRA timing system, will be disqualified, including the Formula 108 race and any other race prior.
- Any rider disqualified will not be able to re-enter the class for the rest of the season.
- The cut-off time at Rad Torque Raceway is 1:24.605 based on the current lap record of 1:18.3
- The cut-off time at Stratotech Park is 1:02.774 based on the current lap record of 0:58.124
- The cut-off time is set at the start of the year and will not change until the race season is over, at which time it will be reviewed for the following year.
- Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
I support this message.
 

OwenB

New Member
I don’t know if this is a rule change bylaw change or system change.

In the 2022 season with concerns that cmra was running a event and not being part of emra and rumours that points would be a drop out round it kind of made me nervous for the purpose I didn’t feel it is fair to accept their points even though our club is not involved.

I am not against accepting other club points I don’t want this to be miss understood. I just have my respect and trust in EMRA executive that have been publicly voted at our agm.
So I feel if we accept any other clubs points towards our championship, our club needs to be involved in some capacity of a 50/50 partnership in order to accept another clubs points towards emra championship.

So my motion is for a bylaw/system/rule addition.

“The EMRA will only accept another clubs points towards any and all emra race class championship only if the EMRA is working in conjunction or in a 50/50 partnership with the alternate club. “


Ok this has the idea what I’m thinking but we can reword it how ever we feel is fair.
I just want this to be fair.
 

Scotia

Member
The current race-day schedule, post lunch, sequentially goes as follows : Intermediate Open Sportbike, Expert Open Sportbike, Sportsman, Lightweight Superbike, Intermediate 600 Superbike, Expert 600 Superbike, Novice, etc.

As all currently stands, there are at least 7 potential expert Sportsman riders who are also eligible to race Expert Open Sportbike.

I suspect a large part of the low contestant numbers in the Expert Open Sportbike race are simply due to current scheduling.

As such, I propose that the respective time-slots for Lightweight Superbike and Sportsman be interchanged.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but this should have no consequence to the Lightweight riders, yet it would provide a respite between races for those who wish to enter both Sportsman and Expert Open Sportbike, which then, in correlation, makes both races all the more compelling to enter.
 

Parker08

EMRA Executive Member
Staff member
I have a handful of mostly clerical changes I’d like made to tidy up the rule book.
Red text are sections that are impacted by my proposed changes. Proposals are in blue.

License Promotions

I would like to:
Move all mention of promotions to this section
Clarify that expert promotions are only done at the end of the year, and
Clarify that intermediate promotions may happen mid-year
Clarify who has the discretion to make the decision on promotions.

Current rules:
10a. Novice – refers to first time or inexperienced riders. Novice riders must complete at least 4 consecutive races without incident before they can be considered for advancement. Novice riders may be required to wear a bright reflective jacket to clearly identify themselves on the track during practice.

11. Advancement or demotion between rider classification is at the discretion of EMRA Officials (specifically Racer Representative and Race Director). At the end of the race season, the EMRA Executive will give consideration to the movement of all racers, especially those finishing in the top 5 of their race competitions. The EMRA Executive sets times and guidelines for expert promotion. The rider must also show valid experience, limited number of crashes and good character. The EMRA Executive will have final say on all promotions.

Proposed rule:
10a. Novice – refers to first time or inexperienced riders. Novice riders may be required to wear a bright reflective jacket to clearly identify themselves on the track during practice.

11. Advancement or demotion between rider classification is at the discretion of EMRA Executive. Intermediate promotions may happen at any time. Expert promotions are only considered at the end of each race season. The EMRA Executive sets times and guidelines for promotion. EMRA Executive has final say on all promotions.
a. Expert Promotions - EMRA Executive will consider all Intermediate racers, especially those finishing in the top 5 of their race competitions. The rider must also show valid experience, limited number of crashes and good character.
b. Intermediate Promotions – Novice riders must complete at least 4 consecutive races without incident before they can be considered for advancement
.

Number Requirements

I would like to clarify an optional number placement option, and other optional number plates in this section.

Current Rule:
12. Each motorcycle competing in an EMRA event must carry complete number identification comprising of three number plates, one on the front of the machine and one number plate on each side.

Proposed rule:
12. Each motorcycle competing in an EMRA event must carry complete number identification comprising of three number plates, one on the front of the machine and one number plate on each side (on the tail piece or on the side of the fairing, on a mostly flat section).


Current Rule:

16. Number plates should be:
a. Novice – red numbers on a white background
b. Intermediate – red numbers on a white background
c. Expert – black numbers on a white background
d. Overall Points Champion – a white number 1 on a blue background

17. EMRA Members will have first choice for numbers.

18. Race numbers will be assigned by EMRA Race Registration. Every effort will be made to minimize number changes during the season.

Proposed Rule:
16. Number plates shall be:
a. Novice – red numbers on a white background
b. Intermediate – red numbers on a white background
c. Expert – black numbers on a white background
d. Overall Club Champion (Blue Plate Champion) – white number 1 on a blue background (Optional. May be used for the following season only)
e. Expert Superbike Champion – black number 1 on a white background (Optional. May be used for the following season only)

17. Competition numbers are first come first serve with first choice to EMRA Members.

18. Race numbers will be reserved from the previous season until the end of the first race round the following season, at which time any unreserved numbers will be released.


Champions & Championships

Related to Number plates, I propose we delete the references to number plates for Expert Superbike Champion and Blue Plate Champion from this section so it’s not redundant.

Current Rule:
188. Expert Superbike Champion – This rider becomes the #1 Plate Holder the following year. This Champion may use a black #1 number plate for all EMRA events until the season ends and a new champion is declared.

189. Overall Club Champion (Blue Plate Champion) - The racer who accumulates the highest point total combined from all classes in one season. The rider may use more than one motorcycle to enter different classes. Riders using only one motorcycle for all events must finish four races per race day in order for those points to count towards the Blue Plate Championship. This Champion may use a white #1 on a blue background number plate for all EMRA events until the season ends and a new champion is declared.

Proposed Rule:
188. Expert Superbike Champion – This rider becomes the #1 Plate Holder the following year.

189. Overall Club Champion (Blue Plate Champion) - The racer who accumulates the highest point total combined from all classes in one season. The rider may use more than one motorcycle to enter different classes. Riders using only one motorcycle for all events must finish four races per race day in order for those points to count towards the Blue Plate Championship.


Medical Data Carrier

I would like to clarify where riders get their medical data carrier.

Current Rule:
26. Each competitor must complete and affix to the left side of their helmet, a Medical Data Carrier™. These are available at registration.

Proposed Rule:
26. Each competitor must complete and affix to the left side of their helmet, a Medical Data Carrier™. These are available during technical inspection and rider’s meeting from EMRA Executive.


Race Officials and Duties

This table needs an overhaul. Instead of proposing a lot of changes creating extensive discussion,
I propose that this table to revised by the incoming 2023 Executive.

Definitions – Pits / paddock:

I would like to provide some consistency and clarification of the use of some commonly misused terms, specifically:

Ie. Pits / Hot Pits / Paddock. Pits and Paddock are defined terms, but are often not correctly used (by their rule book definitions) by our members which can cause confusion. These terms are also not correctly used in Rule 2.1 Pit/Paddock Regulations.

DEFINITIONS:
Paddock: Designated area primarily used for maintenance of event entered competition motorcycles and parking area for motorcycle transport and support vehicles “
I propose to change this definition to be for the word “PITS”.

Pit(s): Designated area directly adjacent to the track between the main grandstands and the front straightaway. Access is limited to officials or individuals with appropriate track pass credentials.”
I propose to change this definition to be for the word “HOT PITS”

I propose the 2023 executive revise the wording to Rule 2.1 to have correct usage of Pits and Hot Pits, and elsewhere in the rule book as applicable.


Definitions - Meet / Event / Race.

These definitions are a bit cyclical and hurt my head.

DEFINITIONS:
Event: Any one of the races in a meet”
Meet: A meeting at which one or more races or events are held”
Race: Competition in which two or more riders compete against each other”

I propose the 2023 executive revise the definitions of these words and their use in the rule book as applicable.
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
Just a reminder, less than a week away from the AGM! Get your rule change proposals in now so they can be included and voted on by members at the AGM.

Lets get a good turn out at the AGM. We welcome all exec members from the CMRA and AMRA to attend. If you can't attend in person a live feed to listen in will be available. If you can't attend in person or listen in meeting minutes will be posted asap.

See you all there!
 
That's not true. Middleweight Twins and Lightweight Open were made a waved start because we decided to make all split grids a waved start. This happened after there was confusion in Women's Open about being a waved start or not behind F112 (it went back and forth that year). At the AGM that year it was proposed to make all split grids a waved start so that we are consistent for all races.


RE: Fairness
What is unfair about having a both races start together? Especially now that Lightweight SBK is gridded based on times (and not points), everyone has the same opportunity to set their grid position, and everyone has to pass bikes in front of them (larger or smaller). There is nothing inherently unfair about it, though I can see how it feels that way when you get held up by a bike, while the guy you're battling with gets a clean pass. But this happens in all our races, either at the start of the race or with lap traffic. Just ask Brian Worsdall and Eric Russnak about it.

RE: Safety
If having both races start together is unsafe because of the number of bikes, then we should have a hard cap on the number of bikes on track. Specifically targeting this race doesn't make sense.
There was a push to make Lightweight SBK a waved start behind Sportsman (when that was still a combined grid) because of the overall grid size. At the time it was by far the largest grid with the last few Lightweight bikes gridding on spots hastily drawn in with chalk that morning.

The best thing we could do to improve safety would be to maintain grid positions by starting time; mixing both races together on the grid. That way the fastest riders start at the front of the grid, and don't have to make aggressive passes early.
Getting held up? Lapping traffic is PART of Racing
 

electrobiker86

Active Member
RE: Lightweight rule changes. I agree with Jon and Graham that it's time to update these rules. You will recall that I proposed these rules changes a few years ago, and maybe it wasn't the right time. But now the time seems right.

RE: whether to do a waved start for the LW Superbike/Middleweight Superbike race - please recall the reason we implemented a waved start for the LW Open/Middleweight Twins race. There are two separate races happening on the track. When we had one start for LW Open/Middleweight Twins, the slower Middleweight Twins bikes have the potential to significantly influence the results of the LW Open race. The waved start was implemented to make both races fair, and give a bit of separation at the leading edge of both races on the opening lap or two.

For the LW Superbike/Middleweight Superbike race, I understand the nostalgia and fun of having a bunch of bikes racing close together. But if we are making this rule change, there are two races happening on the track, and it's not really fair to start them at the same time. If we adhere to the EMRA mission statement of providing safe, fair and equal opportunities for racing, we need to wave this start. After a lap or two, the pack comes together. The waved start makes the first lap or two safer, and more fair for the leading edge of both races.

It's the reason we did it in LW Open/Middleweight Twins. And lets be honest, it is the exact same set of bikes on the LW Open/Middleweight Twins as it will be on the LW Superbike/Middleweight Superbike grid.

Matt
I agree with Matt on this, and also recall the rationale as part of the discussion at the time. I proposed the smaller bikes start the waived start race and still believe that is the better and safer way to go.

I think the waived or all together start preference is due to who, or what, you are there to race, and what your points expectations are. If you have no expectation of podium or trophy, or are there to race your buddy on a different bike, then I see the thought of lets all get together by lap time and see what happens, it is great to watch.

As a guy who held up better riders on smaller bikes seeking podiums; I feel for racers like Matt, Graham and Sean repeatedly having to get around me in corners in a lap, as I was not even racing them. Aliens like Ian and Max pass larger bikes once and are gone, these are not the type of racers I am refering to. Those a few seconds faster lap times than another slower rider on a faster bike are impacted. Period. The guys there for a podium on the smaller bikes, impacted by a seperate class of bike has to be frustrating. Similarly, I have been off many middleweight twins podiums due to a flock of Ducs sporting 3 figure HP, so I feel the pain of those with higher expectations on the points scale affected by a different class of bike

Had a waived start cleared corner 6 on their < 400s before my 650 race started, I would have never seen the better 400cc riders for that race, and therefore would have not held up podium contenders. They could have had a class race unimpacted by lesser riders. As it was, the better riders first had to weave through all of the pack of larger bikes with riders from shite to pretty good skills, before they could have a true class race. Waived is also safer with less bikes starting into 5 - 6 at once and resulting less repeated passing throughout the race. The slower riders that start first, or lapped riders, are passed once in a lap and are usually passed on the straights on the larger bikes anyway. The smaller bikes have to pass larger bikes in corners.

With the two different classes having different starting speeds, corner lines, velocities into and out of corners as well as top speed; my experience is that the classes should be seperated start. The closest to multiple collision I recall in any race is having to repeatedly mix it up with R3s.

At the intermediate approaching expert level, where racers are looking for podiums or top 5, the class mix start is a recipe for frustration at best, disaster at worst. Frustrated on track is not a good head space to be in BTW, use your focus words if you find yourself there.

Regarding the classes of bikes, maybe CC classes should make way for HP classes, <50HP, <70 <90 <120 <150, unlimited HP or something along those lines. Just a thought.
 

Joe Preston

Member
If the motion is to cap the bike at 2010, we should open the rules up to all carburetor motorcycles. This could help bring in some of the super moto guys with newer bikes but still keep it as a "vintage class" since your not getting much more out of a new carburetor vs an old carburetor.
Single cylinder carburetor bikes.
 

Joe Preston

Member
I like this proposal, but after discussing it with a few guys on the exec, we've come up with an alternative proposal that we think will be better for the club overall.

Short version
1. There's a huge gap between F112 and Dash for Cash, and guys who disqualify from F112 just do one less race.
2. We don't want anyone slower than a F112 cutoff in Dash, so changing it to a F115 will just make the problem worse.
3. The best thing for the club is to add F108 behind Dash, and keep F112 as is.

Long version (including justification)
I think we can all agree there's a big gap between Formula 112 and Dash for Cash. Many guys who disqualify out of F112 just drop a race, rather than race in Dash (confirmed this by speaking with multiple riders who had this experience). For example, most guys in Dash are running 1:22.XXX lap times at Rad Torque, while the cutoff for Formula 112 is 1:27.739. That's a big gap to jump from a 1:27 down to a 1:22, and if you decide to enter the race anyway, you end up racing by yourself and not getting any faster.

The solution I'm proposing is to add a Formula 108 race that grids behind Dash for Cash and starts at the same time (NO WAVED START). The entries into F108 pay into the prize payout for Dash the same way anyone entering Dash for Cash does (Note: there is no extra fee, the EMRA takes it out of the 30$ you pay when you register for Dash for Cash). If you DQ out of F108, you automatically score points in that Dash for Cash race. Only people who have DQ'd out of F112 would be able to register for F108.

The advantages to this are:
1. Racers breaking out of F112 have somewhere to go, and don't reduce the number of races they enter.
2. Dash is the race right before F112. So if you DQ out of F112, it is a minor adjustment to your race schedule to grid in F108 instead (the race before is Middle Twins / Lightweight Open, so those bikes will never be in Dash).
3. To DQ out of F108, you need to run a 1:24.605, and you're probably already catching the slowest Dash racers anyway.
4. Dash only has about 10 bikes on track, this would help get more bikes on track. Hopefully with a bigger prize pools (additional racers in F108 paying into the pool) and a stepping stone race to help racers get faster this will encourage and help people to race in Dash for Cash, which is meant to be one of our premier competitive races.

The major disadvantage is where to set the cutoff time for the Formula 112 race.
Wherever you set the cutoff (be it F115 or any other number) that is the slowest pace we would see in F108. For Stratotech, anything slower than the F112 cut-off time will have the leaders of Dash lapping the slowest riders in F108 before the end of the race (see the attached image below with the various cut-off times, and number of laps to get lapped.
Keeping F112 as it is minimizes the chances of any riders in F108 getting lapped by the leaders in Dash for Cash.

We discussed gridding F108 behind Expert Sportbike, which is another small grid. The problem is where it falls in the schedule. It's after lunch, and more importantly it's right after Intermediate Sportbike, and these are the guys who need this new race more than most, and we'd be asking them to do back to back races.

From a pure numbers point of view, and having the best progression to get more racers into Dash, keeping F112 as is, and then adding F108 behind Dash makes the most sense. This is contrary to Jon's proposal for F115, which I happen to agree with. But in terms of what is best for the overall club, I think keeping F112 as it is makes the most sense.



View attachment 2911




Required rule book changes
Section 5.5
New race class: Formula 108
- Open to all intermediate and expert racers who have been disqualified from Formula 112
- No external timing devices (lap timers, pit boards, etc.)
- Any rider recording a lap time shorter than 108% of the cut-off time, as recorded by the EMRA timing system, will be disqualified, including the Formula 108 race and any other race prior.
- Any rider disqualified will not be able to re-enter the class for the rest of the season.
- The cut-off time at Rad Torque Raceway is 1:24.605 based on the current lap record of 1:18.3
- The cut-off time at Stratotech Park is 1:02.774 based on the current lap record of 0:58.124
- The cut-off time is set at the start of the year and will not change until the race season is over, at which time it will be reviewed for the following year.
- Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
I agree with this, mostly , but I'd like to see the F112 moved to a F115 like it's been mentioned prior.
 
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