2024 Rule change discussion

Ducbert

EMRA Executive Member
I like this. The only thing I would like to add is, the 'transferrable to...' is kept within the household or immediate relative, of the exec member.
I would like to suggest something else: make these credits available for when you are no longer on the exec and can use them afterwards. Just like president gets waived races fees for every year served, so shall someone who is on exec but was not able to utilize those credits. In that case I would also make them have no expired date for that person. Non transferable but also never expiring….I would also suggest the same for president, non transferable but never expiring.
 

Ducbert

EMRA Executive Member
I propose to eliminate the Middleweight SBK class, and change Lightweight SBK to the following:

This would be a change back to the 2022 format for the race.
I foresee more middleweight bikes coming out as more are released to the public and raced within NA. I think the race holds value and aligns with classes in other clubs.
 

nac.00

EMRA Executive Member
Staff member
I propose to eliminate participation medals.

Why do we have F112 and F108? redundancy I think. Too many classes, not enough numbers in some premier classes like the SBK classes

I'd like to discuss more segregation between the Supersport and sportbike classes vs the superbike classes. Right now you can show up with Gas-charged ohlins forks, carbon wheels, 10,000$ engine, race fuel etc and race in the sportbike/SS class and the sbk class. Is that fair? Maybe the AGM can collectively decide what theyd like to do....

Perhaps 600ss and open sportbike to be stock: bottom end engine, wheels, fork external, calipers etc.
and 600sbk to become Heavyweight (or middleweight) superbike and align with US rules to allow for the 750 and equivalent machines similar to motoamerica
 

DSmith

New Member
The counterargument is that supersport rules can be more expensive than superbike in many cases. How many bikes in Alberta are substantially stock under say, the very strict WERA definition where everything has to be VIN matching to the right year? GSX-R600/750 mongrel rebuilds become illegal. 07 600RRs with 2013 bodywork become illegal. 600/636 engine swaps become illegal and the range of engines you can use in a GSX-R narrows precipitously. Swapping fork tubes, swingarms, or calipers to a year that had a different color strictly becomes illegal. Wheels from different years become illegal. Street Triple/Daytona conversions become illegal. Those are things that can be addressed to some extent with particular wording or a lot of extra (potentially controversial) complexity in the rules but are factors that have to be considered because we have a lot of old Ship of Theseus bikes.

Stock bottom end only still leaves a lot of room for engine modification both in dollars and horsepower anyways (just the WSSP cams, air funnels, and valve springs on an R6 is around $7500 in parts), and you would have to be prepared to tear down engines and charge a lot more for protests to pay for putting them back together to prove it. WERA is 400USD to pop the head and 750USD for a bottom end that's refunded on a successful protest or given to the rider being protested if they're legal, and those are numbers I don't think many would find worthwhile without the kind of contingency large US clubs have so would anyone be afraid to run superbike cranks and rods in supersport anyways?
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
Before I forget, it was brought up on a social media post about this thread. The Champion from each class would get to defend that title for free the following year. So for example the Champion of the Sportsman class, would get to enter Sportsman for free the next year.
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
I like the idea of a 'Stock 1000' class, like our current Open Sportbike class. The idea was pretty succesful for the WCC also. I don't want to make any changes that would take bikes off the grid and I don't want to make any changes that are difficult to track. So I think a simple baby step that would work in that direction would be for Open Sportbike to only allow stock inner and outer fork tubes, modified fork internals permitted. No aftermarket forks.
 

Logan

Member
Last rule change proposal;
Removal of Single-Cylinder Motorcycles from Middleweight Twins and Middleweight SBK.
-This will not take bikes off the grid as Singles can run in LW and LWSBK which also run at the same time as the MW races.
-This will keep the MW races for MW bikes, MW's is a unique class with different characteristics and should be racing against similar equipment.
****There are 5 known (could be more that I am not privy or supplying parts for) new twins bikes coming to the club for the 2024 season which will give the MW races a good number for their respective class championships****

Middleweight Superbike -Open to all intermediate and expert racers -Single and Twin cylinder, 2-stroke motorcycles up to 350cc and 4-stroke motorcycles up to 790cc -Gridding will be determined by lap times (as recorded by the EMRA timing system). The fastest lap will be gridded first and so on. -Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike

Middleweight Twins -Open to intermediate and expert racers -2-cylinder motorcycles up to 750cc -Single-cylinder motorcycles of unlimited displacement -Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
 

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2quickrides

EMRA Executive Member
Last rule change proposal;
Removal of Single-Cylinder Motorcycles from Middleweight Twins and Middleweight SBK.
-This will not take bikes off the grid as Singles can run in LW and LWSBK which also run at the same time as the MW races.
-This will keep the MW races for MW bikes, MW's is a unique class with different characteristics and should be racing against similar equipment.
****There are 5 known (could be more that I am not privy or supplying parts for) new twins bikes coming to the club for the 2024 season which will give the MW races a good number for their respective class championships****

Middleweight Superbike -Open to all intermediate and expert racers -Single and Twin cylinder, 2-stroke motorcycles up to 350cc and 4-stroke motorcycles up to 790cc -Gridding will be determined by lap times (as recorded by the EMRA timing system). The fastest lap will be gridded first and so on. -Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike

Middleweight Twins -Open to intermediate and expert racers -2-cylinder motorcycles up to 750cc -Single-cylinder motorcycles of unlimited displacement -Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
We can call it the "I'm tired of losing to Shane and Sean" rule.
OK, an actual counter argument. Lightweight open has a displacement limit so the supermotos can’t race in that. Also, this rule would leave KTM 690, etc bikes nowhere to go.
 
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loganb

New Member
Last rule change proposal;
Removal of Single-Cylinder Motorcycles from Middleweight Twins and Middleweight SBK.
-This will not take bikes off the grid as Singles can run in LW and LWSBK which also run at the same time as the MW races.
-This will keep the MW races for MW bikes, MW's is a unique class with different characteristics and should be racing against similar equipment.
****There are 5 known (could be more that I am not privy or supplying parts for) new twins bikes coming to the club for the 2024 season which will give the MW races a good number for their respective class championships****

Middleweight Superbike -Open to all intermediate and expert racers -Single and Twin cylinder, 2-stroke motorcycles up to 350cc and 4-stroke motorcycles up to 790cc -Gridding will be determined by lap times (as recorded by the EMRA timing system). The fastest lap will be gridded first and so on. -Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike

Middleweight Twins -Open to intermediate and expert racers -2-cylinder motorcycles up to 750cc -Single-cylinder motorcycles of unlimited displacement -Motorcycles must comply with 5.4 Technical Specifications - Superbike
We can call it the "I'm tired of losing to Shane and Sean" rule.
OK, an actual counter argument. Lightweight open has a displacement limit so the supermotos can’t race in that. Also, this rule would leave KTM 690, etc bikes nowhere to go.
This new rule change would eliminate races for KTM 690 riders (me). I think the KTM 690 should stay with the middleweight bikes but I would not be opposed to the 690 engine being eligible for lightweight classes.
 

Joe Preston

Member
Propose to add the Endurance Race Rules into the Rule Book.
The text below is taken from the 2023 Endurance Race Forum Post--
I propose these rules be added, with minor modifications/formatting/wordsmithing at the discretion of the 2024 EMRA Executive.

General Rules
It is not possible to anticipate every circumstance and cover it in this rule section; therefore, common sense and a regard for fairness are the fundamental principles in interpretation and enforcement of the rules by EMRA Officials. This information is provided as guidance to competitors, but does not restrict the EMRA from imposing penalties for other actions detrimental to the sport, that is not specifically mentioned herein. Unless otherwise specifically provided for in these rules, the EMRA may impose penalties to any rider or crew.

· Registrants must indicate team format during registration process.
· Each team regardless of format will require at least 2 racers.
· Each team is allowed 1 crew member – who must be preregistered in advance.
· At any time, only registered racers and their team’s one pit crew member are allowed in the hot pits.
· Le Mans style start, positions on the grid will be based on qualifying times from the practice session.
· Any prize payouts will be distributed to the top 3 teams based on lap count and if needed time. 60/30/10% split.
· Intermediate and Expert mixed teams are accepted.

· Pit Lane Marshals will be on duty to enforce rules. Endurance pit stop rules are enforceable by Pit Marshals and violations must be observed by Pit Marshals; pit stop violations cannot be protested by riders or teams. Penalties will be determined by the race director.

· Bikes entering and exiting the hot pits must come to a complete stop at the entry and exit cone and/or lines clearly marked in hot pits
· Hot pits speed limit is 30km/h and will be strictly enforced. Violations will incur a 5-lap penalty.

· Crew member and racers participants will be allowed to go to the main paddock area during the race.
· A race bike must be able to pass technical inspection at any time during the race.

· At no point in time can anyone who is not a part of the registered team of racers and 1 single crew member can be in the hot pits. Infraction will incur a 5-lap penalty.

· Fire extinguisher must be visible in the hot pits at all times. Failure to produce one upon request will result in immediate disqualification.

· Tire changes and refueling must be done in the hot pits during a pit stop.
· A designated tech referee must be in place when your team is performing a pit stop. Each team will be allocated a tech referee.
· Refueling must be done by ONE crew member while a second crew member holds a fire extinguisher ready.
· Refueling must be done ONLY in the teams hot pit area. Refueling outside of your hot pit area will incur a 5-lap penalty.
· No one else can be touching the motorcycle during refueling process and no rider on the motorcycle. Engine must be OFF. Violation of this incurs a 5-lap penalty.

· After tire changes the motorcycle must meet tech requirements and be approved by a tech inspector (safety wire must be replaced). Violation of this incurs a 5-lap penalty.
· Tire change work can be performed by anyone on the team.

· Spare Parts Bikes are NOT allowed in the hot pit area.

· The entire Hot Pit Lane is a NO SMOKING, NO ALCOHOL AREA.

· Until the race has finished, the registered participants and crew members are under a zero-tolerance policy for alcohol and/or cannabis products.

· Right of way during pit stops is to the rider entering the pits from the track. A racer leaving their assigned pit area must yield to incoming riders. A racer leaving the pits must yield to racers on the track. Riders entering and exiting the pits must do so at a REASONABLE and SAFE speed. Failure to heed this rule is grounds for disqualification.

· Bike substitutions are NOT allowed, you must finish the race with the same registered bike(s) you started on.

· Race ends and is at the designated end time + 1 lap then the checkered flag is waved.
· The winning team is whoever completed the most amount of laps.

Motorcycle specifications:
· Superbike rules apply - Unlimited modifications
· Open to any motorcycle type
· Tires – DOT or slicks
· Riding gear and Tech requirements are the same as for regular EMRA races.
· Transponders must be securely mounted on whichever motorcycle is on the track at the time

Endurance Race Formats:
· Team Endurance – 1 Motorcycle shared by 2-4 racers. Tire changes and refueling must be done during the race, in the hot pits.
· Team Relay – Between 2-4 motorcycles shared by 2-4 racers, tire changes and refueling must be done in the paddock while a teammate is racing. Transponder needs to be switched during motorcycle changes.
· Lightweight Relay (Optional) – Same rules as Relay style but no time penalty for teams consisting entirely of “lightweight” class motorcycles. Lightweight relay must involve only motorcycles that qualify for Lightweight Superbike rules (i.e.: no mixing LWs with 600/1000cc entrants).

Team Relay Format-Specific Rules
· Minimum 2 racers per team.
· 15 Minute time penalty to leverage tire change delays which this team gets to avoid by changing their tires and refueling in the pits while their teammate is on track.
· Each team can choose when during the race they will take the 15-minute time penalty.
· Time penalty must be served within the 4 hours of the race or your team will be disqualified.
· Time penalty must be served under green flag conditions.
· Each team member can ride multiple times during the race on any given machine.
· Transponder MUST be switched from relay teammate to relay teammate during pit stops or you will lose record of those laps.

Starting procedure
Starting grid will be marked for riders and bikes on side of track.
Riders will start from far side of track; bikes will be positioned on side of track nearest hot pit wall
Only bike stands, tire warmers, extension cords, one crew member and one rider will be on start grid.
Start light procedure is same as normal

· Flag procedures
All Flag procedures will remain the same as outlined for Sprint races except the red flag. If a red flag is shown riders must stop at the next corner station and wait for instructions, if they are directed to go to the hot pit then they should proceed to their pit cautiously, no work or repairs are allowed on a motorcycle under red flag, you may put tire warmers on. Refueling, rider changes, tire changes, and any general work will not be allowed under red flag unless specific permission to do so is granted by race control

Crashing Rules:
· A crash is defined as the motorcycle hitting the ground either pavement, grass or gravel. If the handlebars go down and the bodywork touches the ground it is considered a crash.
· Crashed machines must undergo technical inspection prior to continuing in the event, even if the motorcycle is picked up and can be ridden back to the pits. A rideable crashed motorcycle must be brought into the hot pit to be reteched immediately, failure to do so will result in a 5 lap penalty and all laps from the time of the crash to the time the bike is teched will be lost.
· If a rider must push a motorcycle back to the hot pits, the rider will stay off the race track and race line as much as possible, direction from corner workers and race control must be followed at all times
· No crew members are allowed to assist the rider in pushing until the rider enters the hot pits entry cone and/or line clearly marked in hot pits.
· Failure to pass technical inspection may result in lost laps, and/or disqualification from the race.

· If a Team does not bring a crashed machine to the Technical Inspector before continuing in the race, the Team will lose all laps subsequent to the crash until the machine is re-inspected and may be disqualified, at the sole discretion of the officials.
I would like to add two rule changes for the endurance race,


First change I purpose is that when teams are using multiple bikes that ONLY ONE bike is "active" meaning that if one bike is on track doing laps none of the other bikes can be worked on in the pit for any reason , and if one of the bikes need work done then all the teams bikes need to be in the teams pit and a tech representative there while one bike is being worked on or a lap penalty given to the team if one bike is on track and one bike in the pit gets worked on, this would make it fair for the single bike teams.

Second rule change is I think there should be a 30min time limit to riders on track doing laps, after 30min max of continuous lap time on track by one rider ,you must come into pit and switch out rider , this would make the race a lot more competitive for all the teams.
 
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Joe Preston

Member
A rule change for wave starts with two races leaving at separate times , when there two flaggers on grid, first flagger holding back the first group and a second flagger holding back the second group,if the second flagger holding back the second group comes off the grid WITH the first flagger before the first race starts there needs to be a procedure to stop the race race start, this puts the second group in a very dangerous situation creatating doubt with the riders being unsure if they are wrong and are suppose to all start together or not, if the race starts and any riders from the second group leave with the first group before doubt was created from the 2nd flagger leaving the grid and riders fear for their safety ,the race should be red flagged and restarted properly and safely.

There needs to be a procedure made to shut down the start for both groups safely and any race for that matter.

We had a similar situation in Mission this year on getting a race start stopped after the red light was lit.

Another option would be to eliminate all wave starts and just leave a gap and both groups leave at the same time.
 
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Logan

Member
This new rule change would eliminate races for KTM 690 riders (me). I think the KTM 690 should stay with the middleweight bikes but I would not be opposed to the 690 engine being eligible for lightweight classes.
Logan,
Ok correction. As the Kramer also fits into the MW class with the single 690. Roles should state singles from 650 to 700cc.
This would include the KTM 690 which also includes the Kramer.

As for the loosing to Sean and Shane rule, as we are in the same races and I proposed to have starts gridded by times they will still kick our assess. Just in their respective classes.
 

nac.00

EMRA Executive Member
Staff member
For every rule change suggested, it's important to look at who posted it and what do they have to gain.
As I suggested, no more participation medals.
The rule changes should keep racing competitive, and keep racers coming back.

I think things need to be tweeked in an attempt to make racing a bit cheaper. I believe the biggest reason numbers arent higher is the sheer cost, and the cost to compete against some heavy duty equipment that the club is now so fond of.

My 0.02$ Im not racing so it's an unbiased view
 

Bronti

New Member
Hey it’s bronti but it’s actually brad talking lol. All Women should be eligible to race in the Women’s open class even if they’re Novice. I do agree with this too and that’s the way it was when I started racing with the club. It helps to progress your racing and skills being able to race in the Women’s Open. Brad’s words “30 minute rider max in an endurance race is dumb. It’s ENDURANCE racing. Also Brad says if you need a helmet guy to help with anything to do with helmet rules/ideas etc.. most don’t know this, I’ve sold thousands of helmets and I worked over 10 years in a bike shop. I was taught by many different helmet manufacturers on how to fit a helmet properly during that time. Also, having waved starts is a safer way to manage the grids. Managing open sport bike is easy, stock wheels, calipers, forks(except internals of course).”
 
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