2018 Rule Change Discussion

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DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
hello everyone. It is that time of year again. The agm will be coming up in December so it's time to get some thoughts on potential rule changes for the 2018 season.

I ask that any proposal be accompanied with an explanation as to why.
Everyone be respectful. Constructive discussion is encouraged. Anything that is out of hand I will be deleting. Keep it respectful.

AND GO.......!
 

blam

Administrator
FAST 25
I had a few people question me about the fast 25 this year. "what was the cut off" essentially.

the rulebook states:
Entrants will be restricted to the fastest 25 racers from the Saturday (or Friday) Practice day as recorded by the EMRA timing system.

this ended up not always being the case this year and registration into this class closes well before qualifying is done so the top 25 are no longer able to be identified in time.

a simple to change to leave it open or set a cut off (F112 m aybe? to avoid overcrowding) for anyone to register, limited to 25.
 

blam

Administrator
also, for my sanity, I would like a rule on transponders

Transponder functionality is the responsibility of the rider. if it fails to ping, you dont get a finish unless:
1) the person in front of you AND behind you can verify your position - all 3 must be present at the time of the protest, OR
2) it can be verified by a worker(Exec or volunteer) in the tower. protests MUST be made within X minutes of the posted results in the tent.

the reasoning behind this is A) its a royal pain in the ass chasing people to find out where someone placed and B) updating the results over and over and over is also a pain in the ass.

for reference, this rule is still pretty slack compared to say WERA's rules with the associated fines.
All riders/teams must use an AMB Tran-X 260/MyLaps Bike or or X2 transponder for scoring purposes in all series. The transponder must be mounted vertically on the left front fork leg in a manner so that the numbers are readable. Do not mount the transponder horizontally in the front fairing - the signal strength drops to an unacceptable level and you may not be scored every lap. Any laps missed due to an improperly mounted transponder will NOT be reinstated. It is the riders responsibility to make sure their transponder is on the bike and functioning properly during qualifying and racing. If a transponder is verified to be mounted and is not functioning during a race the rider will be allowed to choose between a disqualification or a $50 fine. If the transponder is not on the machine or the rider cannot prove a verified working transponder was on the machine the choice is a $100 fine or disqualification. WERA will have the scoring system running during practice and will print lap times to allow riders to verify their transponder is working. WERA will have transponders for rent. Rental fees will be $60 for the event. Any transponder not returned to the WERA office within one week after the event and lost transponders will result in the rider/team being charged the going rate for a new transponder. This charge will not be refunded. Transponders cannot be used by more than one rider per any given weekend.

this is the rule at UMC
All motorcycles must carry a functioning transponder at all times while on the track, including practice. Failure to do so WILL result in being pulled from the track, loss of grid position or disqualification at the discretion of UtahSBA officials
 
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Dave86

Active Member
FAST 25
this ended up not always being the case this year and registration into this class closes well before qualifying is done so the top 25 are no longer able to be identified in time.

That was always the case, we've never had over 25 people register for Fast 25, but if we did and somebody wasn't among the fastest 25 qualifiers, what we discussed when the class was first created was that anybody who didn't make the cut for the top 25 qualifiers would just have their entry refunded.
 

Dave86

Active Member
I wanted to propose changing all classes (with the exception of Novice, which would remain random grids) to qualifying, as the process of gridding would take around 20 minutes instead of a couple hours (the MyLaps Orbits system cannot generate grids automatically based on championship points, it can only automate grid spots based on qualifying times).

Pros:
- Grids can be generated much faster
- From a safety point of view, faster riders would not by working through slower riders in the grid at the start of the season if they don't have points in a class

Cons:
- The advantage of grid position gained by consistency in finishes (points) is lost
- More riders would be trying to put in a qualifying time during practice, which could potentially lead to more issues with practice groups and traffic

I don't feel strongly either way, I just know it would save hours of time for whoever is generating grids next year, so I wanted to see how the club membership felt about it.
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
That was always the case, we've never had over 25 people register for Fast 25, but if we did and somebody wasn't among the fastest 25 qualifiers, what we discussed when the class was first created was that anybody who didn't make the cut for the top 25 qualifiers would just have their entry refunded.
Have we had any issues with speed differential in this class that would warrant changing the rule to be , that you must be within the top 25 qualifiers to be eligible to compete. And not based on top 25 registrants for the class.
 

blam

Administrator
Have we had any issues with speed differential in this class that would warrant changing the rule to be , that you must be within the top 25 qualifiers to be eligible to compete. And not based on top 25 registrants for the class.

in theory, the differential would be 1:18.6 fastest and 1:28.0 slowest (F112-if you cant break out of 112 you shouldnt be running F25)

that's a 9.432 second gap, 6 laps would be 56.59 so there shouldn't be any lapping.
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
I personally like the grids based off of points as I feel consistency should be rewarded.
It does suck though that it takes so much more time to create the grids. I would hope that mylaps may be willing to help create a solution to this as we are not the only club that has to do this.
 

Dave86

Active Member
I personally like the grids based off of points as I feel consistency should be rewarded.
It does suck though that it takes so much more time to create the grids. I would hope that mylaps may be willing to help create a solution to this as we are not the only club that has to do this.

I wouldn't count on it, the other clubs that do points based grids do them manually just like us, and if MyLaps hasn't changed this in years I wouldn't expect them to change any time soon. I even asked them about it this year and it's not a feature they plan to introduce.
 

Goatse

Active Member
My proposed changes.

#1. Technical infractions having some sort of fine system. Where the fine issued would be in the form of points. This is not with things caught during tech, this is referring to things after the fact, or things tech can't readily check. Eg: If somebody is caught running antifreeze in their radiator, they forfeit all points from that weekend.

#2. This one would be based on Tosh being OK with it (if voted in). But I think that the Black #2 should be reserved for the Intermediate Superbike Champ, just as the Black #1 is reserved for the expert Superbike Champ. I think it would be nice for someone to have that year long recognition after such an accomplishment.

Edit: This is a big one, and I'm surprised I forgot it.

#3. I propose that all bikes (that have one available) are to run a full bellypan with no drain holes (unless plugged). This means that even if the vent lines are into the (350ml+) catch can, that a fully closed in belly pan is still required. Sure there will be some naked bikes that are excluded from this rule, but if your bike has one that is available, then you must have one to pass tech. I think anybody that was there and helped with the cleanup on the Friday before the final double header would agree with this. The cleanup would have been a fraction of what it was if the bike had an enclosed belly pan. Yes I know it was a "track day" as well, but the bike that caused it was an EMRA racer's race bike...
 
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RamboRay

New Member
#2. This one would be based on Tosh being OK with it (if voted in). But I think that the Black #2 should be reserved for the Intermediate Superbike Champ, just as the Black #1 is reserved for the expert Superbike Champ. I think it would be nice for someone to have that year long recognition after such an accomplishment.[/QUOTE]

Only if Tosh is cool with it...
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't count on it, the other clubs that do points based grids do them manually just like us, and if MyLaps hasn't changed this in years I wouldn't expect them to change any time soon. I even asked them about it this year and it's not a feature they plan to introduce.
That is unfortunate with how much they charge their customers.
 

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
My proposed changes.

#1. Technical infractions having some sort of fine system. Where the fine issued would be in the form of points. This is not with things caught during tech, this is referring to things after the fact, or things tech can't readily check. Eg: If somebody is caught running antifreeze in their radiator, they forfeit all points from that weekend.

#2. This one would be based on Tosh being OK with it (if voted in). But I think that the Black #2 should be reserved for the Intermediate Superbike Champ, just as the Black #1 is reserved for the expert Superbike Champ. I think it would be nice for someone to have that year long recognition after such an accomplishment.


Yes. I like the proposal with #1 as it puts the onus back on the rider as it should be to have their bikes prepared properly.
Tech is merely there for a quick once over to make sure nothing that is easily visible has been missed.
#2 is another great idea if tosh is willing to relinquish his current number
 

OwenB

New Member
Here a few things I have collected over the year

AGM

Air fans race license

-Race number licence for active races is an additional deposit.
Must volunteer for 2 air fence set up or tear down to qualify for credit or refund. Other volunteer options are possible like bike show and other events.
Exceptions are one time rider and or visiting riders. Discretion of the executive
-Each rider is responsible for writing legibly and placing there name on the volunteer list at time of set up and tear down.

We have ha hard time finding help on Sunday nights and it's the same 6 people every time.

I think 2.5
-cutting the entrance while entering live track will result in a penalty.

The cones are placed out for the saftey of the gate workers and riders. Must follow cones when entering track.
To be honest lots listen but some don't they feel they can just cut the cones and once they cut everyone else cuts.


5.2 Equipment Standards General.
-An oil retaining, “sealed” lower fairing is mandatory. Removable rain drainage plug is required at the lowest point. Aftermarket, OEM-style bodywork and custom fairing mounts may be used.

-Motorcycles which are dirty or show potentially dangerous bodywork will not be approved.

-Fairings must be securely mounted in at least three locations.


6.3 Racing Offenses.
-Any rider caught not complying with technical requirements after a race will disqualified from the results of that race.

- Any rider caught not complying with technical requirements after a race will be fined $50 for the first offense, $100 for the second, Suspension on a third offense.

1.2 set times and guid lines for promotions
I got this from a few races request something like this.
Motion the executive to create guid lines of some sort for people to chase after.
-Expert promotions should be based on consistent lap times half way through the season at 110% of the fastest lap. A consistent lap time should be present.
-using 1:18.5 which is mikes 2017 fastest lap it will yield the following
110% 1:26.35
Round it to a consistent time of 1:26.00
-must show valid experiounce
-number of crashes and or it at fault will be taken into consideration
-rider character in the pits and on social media
- final promotions are to the description of the executive

1.1 and 1.2
This may not be needed to be addressed. And beating a dead horse but this covers
Every possible scenario.

returning riders guidelines
-2 year And 5 year guid lines in effect
-2 year guid line must follow a written test
-2-5 years follow 2 year guid lines and riders require a check out. Rider returns to there class of riding and an evaluation process at the end of the season is conducted (subject to majority of the season participation )
-5year plus, retake race school, one season of expert of they are a returning expert rider with an evaluation process at the end of the year.
(Subject to majority of the season participation)
-Demotions are addressed at the end of the season based on riders capability in the expert and the saftey of all other riders. Rider requires to adhere to promotional guid lines in 1.2
 

Goatse

Active Member
-An oil retaining, “sealed” lower fairing is mandatory. Removable rain drainage plug is required at the lowest point. Aftermarket, OEM-style bodywork and custom fairing mounts may be used.

Thanks for the reminder. I've edited my post as well.

P.S. You should clean your post up a little. It's pretty difficult to read/make sense of.
 

the_fornicator

Active Member
How do you start at 2.5? Where did 1 go?

Oh, there it is... sorta. You got from 2, to 5, to 6, to 1, to 1. You referenced 1.2 twice.

I don't understand lol
 

the_fornicator

Active Member
I've been wanting to propose this for a long time so it's not directed at any particular exec member this year (I even brought it up last year):

I'd like to propose that if an exec member misses more than 2 (or 3... however many) meetings during the season (or in a calendar year) that their position on the exec come into review to determine if the person is fit for exec. Vote on it or something like that by the existing executive.

Each time someone has surpassed the threshold limit, the reasons for missing the meetings will be reviewed and voted on. This does not constitute an automatic dismissal from the exec and allows the exec to use judgement/reason before making the decision (is the reason legitimate or not?).

Again, I'm not pointing fingers. I'll use myself as an example: I missed more than half the meetings last year when I was on exec due to personal reasons. I offered the exec to replace me but there was no precedent for that. Determining a replacement may be a different topic altogether.
 
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Jason Henton

Active Member
My proposed changes.
#2. This one would be based on Tosh being OK with it (if voted in). But I think that the Black #2 should be reserved for the Intermediate Superbike Champ, just as the Black #1 is reserved for the expert Superbike Champ. I think it would be nice for someone to have that year long recognition after such an accomplishment.
Why Black #2? Couldnt they be issued the red #1 to coincide with intermediate group?
 

Goatse

Active Member
Why Black #2? Couldnt they be issued the red #1 to coincide with intermediate group?

If they won the Intermediate Superbike Championship, it means that season is over. Then they would be in expert the following year, where they would be running a black number on their bike.
 
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