2020 Rule Change Discussion

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations' started by DEFBOY35, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Ducbert

    Ducbert Active Member

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    Norbert aka "Jaju"
    Manufacturers Championship - Recognition to the top manufacturers within the club ranks. We have 1, 2 3 places. Tops points earned by each manufacturer in all races. No trophy just recognition at the awards banquet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  2. Ducbert

    Ducbert Active Member

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    That’s a great idea! So everyone would enter Dash and the times would be the only deciding factor if you are in/won 108. That might simplify gridding also....
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  3. Ducbert

    Ducbert Active Member

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    You forgot to add cheapest...

    I’ll be running 2 bikes next year and I have to plan my races so I “have” time to do what’s needed. Like swap transponders, fill fuel , piss etc...if I need a second transponder it just goes with the added cost of deciding to run a second bike. However not having to run two transponders in two litre bikes is a blessing! Plus it gives the rider other things to focus on. Would someone really try to pass their 1000 lap times off as a 600 or vice versa?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  4. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    Changing the team championship rules is a worthwhile endeavour to promote participation and fairness. Currently, a lightweight production bike only has one race at our club to be competitive - the LW Open class. Our LW Superbike rules are really a Middleweight Superbike class (see my rule change proposal about that class above). Formula Thunder requires LW Open bikes to compete against 1000cc bikes. So if the team championship rules reward having team members compete in as many races as possible, you are effectively eliminating LW Open riders from the team championship.

    What about the following additions to the Team rules package:
    -No limitation on number of races per rider, but each rider may only compete in one displacement category to accumulate points for the team;
    -Teams may not have more than 2 riders competing in each displacement category;
    -If your team has 2 riders competing in the 600cc or 1000cc category, then no more than one other rider on the team can compete in a 600cc or 1000cc category.

    Although a bit wordy, this rules package would require each team to have at least one Middleweight or Lightweight rider on the team. If you had two 600cc riders, you could only have one 1000cc rider. If you have two 1000cc riders, you could only have one 600cc rider.

    Unintended consequences are the bane of any rulemaker's existence. It's never going to be perfect. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to create a rules package that is more fair and inclusive.
     
  5. SetUpSixRR

    SetUpSixRR EMRA Executive Member

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    I look forward to these ideas being proposed at the AGM. I will say that the Team Championship IS geared towards awarding the team who does the most races... The whole idea behind this championship was to try and get more racers doing more races.

    If you want to add rules to the championship think of two things;
    - Will it give someone an opportunity to enter less races without losing potential points? (such as taking averages would do)
    - Will it be easily tracked? someone on the exec has to go through every singe race, every single round, looking for every single name of a rider with a team and then do their tally, or create a formula if there is averages. etc.... you know whats easier? Just adding totals.
    Something to keep in mind. :)
     
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  6. Framer

    Framer Member

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    Yeah, one thing that kept coming up while we were talking about this at home is, "what is the objective of the team championship". That will dictate how it should be scored. If the objective is to get guys doing more races, then leaving it as is will get us there.
     
  7. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    Agreed to both Brian and Paul's posts.
    The discussion should centre around deciding the club's objectives with the team championship. Then we can draft the rules to suit. If the objective is to get more racers doing more races, the club should acknowledge that this effectively rules out the Middleweight and especially the Lightweight bikes from being competitive in the team championship. If the objective is to encourage competitive inter-team rivalries and to promote participation by all club members, then it could be suggested that a new team championship rules package is needed.
     
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  8. Framer

    Framer Member

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    Maybe we could consider a classification for the team championship? Something like a Middleweight/Lightweight team championship and a Supersport/Superbike team championship? Of course that doesn't work for guys that run both lightweight bikes and superbikes...
     
  9. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    It's a good suggestion. The club needs to decide what direction it wants to go with the team championship. I would look for executive guidance on this. Then we can draft the rules.
     
  10. fast316

    fast316 EMRA Executive Member

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    Race fees are far and away the largest source of income for the club, it lives and dies by collecting race fees. We can increase income for the club by increasing fees (no thanks), or by giving the racers WE CURRENTLY HAVE a reason to want to pay more fees (there's a team championship on line). This was the reason for creating the team championship as it is and the reason for it's success within the club.

    The club is very successful (race fees are cheapest around, the on track product is high quality, and the club operates in the black). It is also competitive (We have full grids, and a large number of champions given the number of classes). One of the reasons for these two points is because of the current Team Championship.
     
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  11. Fireman

    Fireman Well-Known Member

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    May I suggest a pro rookie of the year series? This would be a cumulation of points scored by our newly minted expert racers. This is taken directly from csbk, and would allow the club to spotlight our new and up and coming talent. It may also allow those riders to feel more comfortable as they get promoted to the faster classes.
     
  12. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    Basically just to make the rookie of the year award officially based off of most points?
     
  13. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    Limit teams to 1 exec/past president? Being that their fees are covered, it’s A little easier for a team stacked with 3 exec to do their 6 Races a day.
     
  14. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    Agreed. The club is very well run. The Executive do an amazing job with this. Keep up the great work!
     
  15. blam

    blam Administrator

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    im not for or against this as i havent thought about it, but i agree....there should be a set of rules to help prevent stacking. as far as i can recall, every year has been heavily dominated by 2 teams down to the last weekend

    some random examples that may or may not work:
    no more than X of #1 plate holders per team from previous season
    must have a mix of X:Y expert:intermediate ratio
    winning team from previous season must replace X amount of riders in the team
     
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  16. Jefferson

    Jefferson EMRA Executive Member

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    Well at least El Hondo would never have to worry about having to replace anyone on the team.
     
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  17. Alicat

    Alicat Member

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    I propose that the team championships consist of everyone that wants to participate, put your name into a hat and we draw teams. The fastest people that want to participate draw 3 names each. Say there is 20 people that want to participate take the 5 fastest from last year and they draw 3 names each. This would ultimately make it more fair and would likely lead to more participation from people that think they may not win, aslo maybe bring the club closer as a whole.
    I also would like to propose that the expert Super Bike Race is earlier in the day so that we can get more people to race. Maybe we could switch it with open sportbike. I know I'd rather do a 12 lap race then an 8 lap race at the end of the day. Or have 2 sbk races, saturday race 1 and sunday race 2 and eliminate open sport bike. Either way Id like to see expert sbk grids improve. Another idea might be to grid intermediates and experts together and let them all go at once. I feel like most of the people in intermediate sbk are good enough to race with expert maybe put a time cap of 110 % or what ever so people are not getting lapped at a high rate of speed. If we did this then I think we should keep open sport bike.
     
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  18. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    Interesting suggestion on the team championship Allan. That would shake things up. I like the aspect of it bringing the club closer together. We would all make some new friends with this format. From a new club member's perspective (2019 was my 2nd year), the team championship didn't seem accessible to me. It felt like something the old friends at the club did and I had no chance to field a competitive team.
     
  19. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    Lightweight Open Rule Change:

    I would like input about allowing the Ninja 400 into the LW Open Class. No, I didn't buy a Ninja 400. I'm building an R3 for next year, so I have no self interest in this.

    The basis for the rule change would be to keep the club in line with currently available small capacity production bikes, and trends in LW production racing. Let's say I'm a new racer next year, I have some cash, and I want to buy a new bike to compete in the LW Open class. Our rules only make two bikes available...Yamaha R3 and KTM RC 390. The Ninja 300 isn't produced anymore, and the Honda CBR300 and Suzuki GSXR 250 are very under powered and therefore won't be competitive.

    Stock Ninja 400 makes around 45 horsepower. We could allow this bike but with no changes to the power train...no engine/airbox/exhaust/fueling mods, except that you could put an aftermarket muffler on it to save weight. Building your race bike would basically be a chassis build. WMRC in Vancouver did this. CSBK allows the Ninja 400 in their LW series, but with restrictions to drop the horsepower below 42.

    This would just be a rule change to promote more participation. Thoughts?
     
  20. blam

    blam Administrator

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    SHOTS FIRED
     
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