2020 Rule Change Discussion

[DEFBOY35]

hello everyone. Now that we have had a couple days to recover from the awesome banquet, it’s that time that we start spit balling ideas for rule changes and get some of the discussion out here to save a little time at the agm.

Keep it respectful!

I’ll start it off,
All lightweight riders under 170lbs are required to wear ballast (Ian cough, cough) only half kidding, let’s hear what you got!

 

[blam]

graham's going to need a 50 pound vest

 

[fast316]

I hate to be that guy, but shouldn't this be 2020 rule change discussion?

 

[M87]

To be applied retroactively

 

[DEFBOY35]

I hate to be that guy, but shouldn't this be 2020 rule change discussion?

Good catch. Thanks.

 

[Shredder780]

I’d like to see automatic DQ’s from a black flag be discussed to allow them to be protest-able because each case can be individually circumstantial. To play devil’s advocate, we definitely also do not want to have riders receiving black flags as a “guideline” and implying their own judgement during a race. Conversely, I can think of at least 2 instances this season where it might have made sense to reverse a DQ’d result, but the decision was locked because of it being a hard irreversible rule. I think it’s great that race-control has the power to pull a potential hazard off the track immediately, but should also have the power to address their own decision after the chaos and racing subsides to make sure the right decision was made. Opposite to the universal law; it should be guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Jefferson]

I’d like to see automatic DQ’s from a black flag be discussed to allow them to be protest-able because each case can be individually circumstantial. To play devil’s advocate, we definitely also do not want to have riders receiving black flags as a “guideline” and implying their own judgement during a race. Conversely, I can think of at least 2 instances this season where it might have made sense to reverse a DQ’d result, but the decision was locked because of it being a hard irreversible rule. I think it’s great that race-control has the power to pull a potential hazard off the track immediately, but should also have the power to address their own decision after the chaos and racing subsides to make sure the right decision was made. Opposite to the universal law; it should be guilty until proven innocent.

Unfortunately, that's the way it has to be, for example;

A: Race control pulls a black flag on a rider, they pull off, even if race control changes their mind and lets them back on, race is over for them anyway due to the amount of time lost. This is how its supposed to work. Gets the unsafe bike/rider off the track ASAP.

B: Race control pulls a black flag, rider ignores it and finishes the race. They are DQ'd, protest, and race control "changes their mind". If that was ever to happen, why would ANYONE ever pull of for a black flag after that incident? Someone is flagged for safety reasons, and black flags need to be adhered to or you're disqualified. Period.

Its not about "innocent until proven guilty" or even the opposite, its about removing a possible hazard. If you don't want to be flagged, maintain/prep your race bike appropriately.

 

[fast316]

Our current rules do not address the new FIM helmet standard. I think they should be allowed. The exact wording of that into our rules I'm not 100% sure, something the next exec can discuss and sort out.

 

[DEFBOY35]

Our current rules do not address the new FIM helmet standard. I think they should be allowed. The exact wording of that into our rules I'm not 100% sure, something the next exec can discuss and sort out.

Any links to info regarding this new standard?

 

[blam]

Any links to info regarding this new standard?

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2019...omologation-programme-comes-into-force/295453

 

[DEFBOY35]

My question is how will this be implemented? And do we have a 5 year grace period? Because the helmets I just bought that have at least another 4 years left on them are snell 2015 rated , which I believe would be the case for many of the membership.

Or is it as simple as adding the new fim standard to the current wording and in 5 years time it would be the sole standard left standing as all eligible helmets at that point should have been manufactured under that new rating?

 

[blam]

personally, i feel we need a heads-up grace period for the same reason you stated. it will also give the manufacturers more time to put out more helmets that meet this criteria

 

[DSmith]

Snell/ECE/JIS is a prereq for FRHPhe-01, so they could be passed as is.
https://www.frhp.org/circuit helmets/technical requirements

 

[Logan]

personally, i feel we need a heads-up grace period for the same reason you stated. it will also give the manufacturers more time to put out more helmets that meet this criteria

I was going to order a couple of helmets, I think I'll wait until I get a definite answer from our executives. I wear ls2 helmets and I can't find anything yet about the new rating with their equipment.

 

[Ducbert]

New race, happens during Dash for Cash. Designed to give racers who just left Formula 112 a grid to compete with each other on, but are not quite up to Dash for Cash pace.

Formula 108 (Combined class Intermediate-Expert)

• Any motorcycle type
  
  
• Unlimited modifications
  
  
• Tires – DOT or slicks
  
  
• No external timing devices (Lap timers, Pit boards)
  
  
• Open to all Intermediate or Expert riders
  
  
• Rider must have disqualified from Formula 112 to participate
  
  
• Formula 108 will grid behind “Dash for Cash”
  
  
• Any rider recording a lap time faster than 108% of the cut off time, as recorded by the EMRA timing system will be disqualified at the end of the race and moved into Dash for Cash.
  
  
• Any rider slower than 113% for every lap over the duration of the race will be disqualified from the race and not allowed to re-enter Formula 108 until they have shown they can maintain a pace better than 112% of the lap record. Lap times from other races and qualifying will be reviewed by race officials and EMRA executive.
  
  
• If your times were greater than 113% and you were disqualified from Formula 108, you will not be allowed to re-enter Formula 112.
  
  
• The lower limit or cut off time is 1:24.9, based on the current lap record of 1:18.5. Based on 2019 times
  
  
• The upper limit or cut off time is 1:28.7, based on the current lap record of 1:18.5. Based on 2019 times
  
  
• The cut off times are set at the start of the year and will not change until the race season is over, at which time it will be reviewed for the following year.

Dash for cash Amendment

• 5.14 Entrants will be restricted to registered riders with a qualifying time faster than the current Formula 108 cut off.

 

[DEFBOY35]

I like the idea of having that extra stepping stone there giving guys something to keep pushing for. It was nice to see how big the dash grids were getting this year finally.
The biggest complaint I can see with that though, is it will take away from the potential prize purse from the dash class.
That being said I think the way it was this past year the grids would essentially be the same size. Maybe a touch larger by having the 108 along with it.
Logistically I wouldn’t think it would be too much extra work if the grids are based off of qualifying as well. Much easier for whoever is doing grids.

 

[gixxer60_0]

I like this idea and I think it is very doable. I ran dash for cash cause I didn’t have s place to go. This would allow another level of competition. And it doesn’t take away from the race schedule.

 

[Nevets]

Proposal
Increase engine displacement in lightweight superbike to 700cc or less for 2 cylinder engines (currently capped at 680cc). This would allow the FZ07 to race in this class, and bring our own classes into closer alignment with other clubs in North America.

Justification
FZ07 is comparable to SV650 and Ninja 650 bikes which are already eligible for this class. The FZ07 has a displacement of 689cc, which is only 9cc above the current class limit.
Without this change, the only race where the FZ07 is competitive is in the Middleweight Twins class. Where possible the EMRA does it’s best to give every bike two races where it can be competitive.

AFM - American Federation of Motorcyclists uses the following range of engine sizes for superbike, with a note that 4 stroke twins are permitted to run one class down (limited to a 250cc advantage):
“175-250 cc
251-450 cc
451-600 cc
601-750 cc
751-Open cc”
Also, their rulebook also specifically permits the Yamaha FZ07 to compete with the 650cc bikes in Formula GP, Formula IV and Formula Twins:
“250-650 cc …….. 4-stroke twin-cylinder, plus Yamaha FZ07”
“501-650 cc …….. 4-stroke twin-cylinder, plus Yamaha FZ07…”
https://www.afmracing.org/documents/afm_rules_current.pdf

WERA Motorcyle Roadracing allows the following for lightweight twins superbike and superstock:
“Up to 700cc water-cooled twins with more than 3 valves”
http://www.wera.com/rulebook/?x=1098#ch9

USBA – Utah Sportbike Association allows the following for lightweight twins superbike:
Up to 700cc two-cylinder, four-stroke, water cooled
https://www.utahsba.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/USBA-2019-Rule-Book.pdf

WMRRA – Washington Motorcycle Road Racing Association allows the following for lightweight superbike:
“Up to 700cc four-stroke twin-cylinder”
http://www.wmrra.com/rulebook

CCS/ASRA - Champion Cup Series / American SportBike Racing Association allows the following for lightweight superbike and supersport:
“Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, non-desmodromic valves, up to 800cc”
http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2019/rules/2019 ASRA-CCS Rulebook.pdf

CMRA – Central Motorcycle Roadracing Association allows the following in the Superbike D (smallest superbike class)
“Up to 700cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins”
http://www.cmraracing.com/rulebook/

CRA – Central Roadracing Association allows the following for lightweight superbike, supersport, and GP:
“Up to 700cc 4-stroke twins”
https://www.cra-mn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/CRA_Rulebook_2019-V3.pdf

 

[Nevets]

New race, happens during Dash for Cash. Designed to give racers who just left Formula 112 a grid to compete with each other on, but are not quite up to Dash for Cash pace.

Formula 108 (Combined class Intermediate-Expert)

I want to support Norbert's proposal. I think this is a great idea.

 

[Nevets]

hello everyone. Now that we have had a couple days to recover from the awesome banquet, it’s that time that we start spit balling ideas for rule changes and get some of the discussion out here to save a little time at the agm.

Also, if anyone has gone through the rulebook and noticed something that doesn't seem right, please bring it up here, and it can be corrected for next year.